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	<title>
	Comments on: Bill requires moving companies disclose employed sex offenders	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/</link>
	<description>Reforming Florida’s Sex Offender Registry Laws</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2023 22:28:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>
		By: Anon		</title>
		<link>https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6470</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2023 22:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://floridaactioncommittee.org/?p=6483#comment-6470</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6464&quot;&gt;MOM&lt;/a&gt;.

This is such a niche/outlier of a case it’s hard to believe they wrote a law for it. 
A better moving company law would be to address the movers that quote you a price, pick up your stuff, then raise the price and force you to pay or lose your stuff. That happens DAILY and goes unchecked. 
I’m not suggesting that employers shouldn’t hire responsibly, but keeping someone out of a manual labor job because they might encounter a minor while working seems like a solution looking for a problem. Should PFR also be excluded from mowing lawns? How about being an electrician? Cooking in a restaurant?
If someone is so dangerous they can’t have a job where there is occasional, incidental contact with minors, that person shouldn’t walk free in society. Existing laws deal with that just fine, and there are plenty of additional restrictions on PFR if on probation or parole.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6464">MOM</a>.</p>
<p>This is such a niche/outlier of a case it’s hard to believe they wrote a law for it.<br />
A better moving company law would be to address the movers that quote you a price, pick up your stuff, then raise the price and force you to pay or lose your stuff. That happens DAILY and goes unchecked.<br />
I’m not suggesting that employers shouldn’t hire responsibly, but keeping someone out of a manual labor job because they might encounter a minor while working seems like a solution looking for a problem. Should PFR also be excluded from mowing lawns? How about being an electrician? Cooking in a restaurant?<br />
If someone is so dangerous they can’t have a job where there is occasional, incidental contact with minors, that person shouldn’t walk free in society. Existing laws deal with that just fine, and there are plenty of additional restrictions on PFR if on probation or parole.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jacob		</title>
		<link>https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6469</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jacob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Mar 2023 14:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://floridaactioncommittee.org/?p=6483#comment-6469</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6468&quot;&gt;Dustin&lt;/a&gt;.

No one supported their father’s killer on here. She indicated no such support. She only stated what was done to her, in general terms. We did not and could not require citation of what she was sharing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6468">Dustin</a>.</p>
<p>No one supported their father’s killer on here. She indicated no such support. She only stated what was done to her, in general terms. We did not and could not require citation of what she was sharing.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Dustin		</title>
		<link>https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6468</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dustin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2023 08:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://floridaactioncommittee.org/?p=6483#comment-6468</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6467&quot;&gt;Jacob&lt;/a&gt;.

@ Jacob:

I for one don&#039;t see any problem with verification of some kind regarding accusations of sexual misconduct. Frankly, I think it should be required. But that&#039;s another argument for another post.

Most registry restrictions are written into law based on isolated incidents. Those that aren&#039;t are based on incidents unlikely to occur in the first place (I call them phantasms).  The incident described in MOM&#039;s post is certainly one or the other.

But first and foremost, even assuming MOM&#039;s post is true, what difference did it make if the man she accused was on the registry or not? Would it have been less creepy if he wasn&#039;t registered? Did she verify if he was on the registry before deciding to report the incident or not?

Being Florida, I doubt any PO would allow someone on sex offender parole or probation would be allowed to work for a moving company anyway due to the possibility of contact with minors. But even so, how many sex crimes - against children or otherwise - were committed by moving company laborers on the job or shortly afterward? Not saying it never happened, but is the number so high as to warrant a new law specifically aimed to prevent moving companies from hiring registrants? Because let&#039;s be honest, that&#039;s the real point of this law.

Even if not a complete fabrication, this story doesn&#039;t justify this particular law. MOM&#039;s issue was better addressed to the man&#039;s PO. Personally, I&#039;d be more concerned if the people moving all my stuff were prior thieves or substance abusers. Their recidivism is at least five times higher than registrants.

And I also remember the woman who supported her registrant father&#039;s killer on the FAC forum.  I don&#039;t recall if her story of abuse was verified or not (not sure if her father was convicted for that, but don&#039;t think so). But if memory serves, she wasn&#039;t saying all registrants need to be gunned down like her father was.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6467">Jacob</a>.</p>
<p>@ Jacob:</p>
<p>I for one don&#8217;t see any problem with verification of some kind regarding accusations of sexual misconduct. Frankly, I think it should be required. But that&#8217;s another argument for another post.</p>
<p>Most registry restrictions are written into law based on isolated incidents. Those that aren&#8217;t are based on incidents unlikely to occur in the first place (I call them phantasms).  The incident described in MOM&#8217;s post is certainly one or the other.</p>
<p>But first and foremost, even assuming MOM&#8217;s post is true, what difference did it make if the man she accused was on the registry or not? Would it have been less creepy if he wasn&#8217;t registered? Did she verify if he was on the registry before deciding to report the incident or not?</p>
<p>Being Florida, I doubt any PO would allow someone on sex offender parole or probation would be allowed to work for a moving company anyway due to the possibility of contact with minors. But even so, how many sex crimes &#8211; against children or otherwise &#8211; were committed by moving company laborers on the job or shortly afterward? Not saying it never happened, but is the number so high as to warrant a new law specifically aimed to prevent moving companies from hiring registrants? Because let&#8217;s be honest, that&#8217;s the real point of this law.</p>
<p>Even if not a complete fabrication, this story doesn&#8217;t justify this particular law. MOM&#8217;s issue was better addressed to the man&#8217;s PO. Personally, I&#8217;d be more concerned if the people moving all my stuff were prior thieves or substance abusers. Their recidivism is at least five times higher than registrants.</p>
<p>And I also remember the woman who supported her registrant father&#8217;s killer on the FAC forum.  I don&#8217;t recall if her story of abuse was verified or not (not sure if her father was convicted for that, but don&#8217;t think so). But if memory serves, she wasn&#8217;t saying all registrants need to be gunned down like her father was.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jacob		</title>
		<link>https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6467</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jacob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2023 23:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://floridaactioncommittee.org/?p=6483#comment-6467</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6465&quot;&gt;Jacob&lt;/a&gt;.

Understood, I just don’t think we can require alleged victims to substantiate their own firsthand accounts, unless they are causing damage and we have reason to believe they are lying.

Often there simply isn’t a court case or media account to accompany every instance of sexual victimization.  Sometimes abuse victims don’t get their day in court, and we simply have to decide on our own whether or not to believe them.

Recall when we were discussing the murder of a Nebraska registrant on this forum, and one of that registrant’s victims came into the discussion and shared her side of that registrant’s story? We (rightly, I think), did not demand additional evidence of her because there was none, he was never prosecuted for it.  But many people believed her, and I think she eventually came to understand that FAC and victims in many ways are on the same side.

Perhaps our volunteer moderators were simply skeptical of MOM’s story and that was the reason for requiring citation.  Sometimes incidents that can’t be adjudicated, result in complaint to a lawmaker instead. I just want to be careful not to make alleged victims think that we are calling them liars or whatnot.  Perhaps I’m in the minority in this view, but more victims need to be part of the discussion.

I think our volunteer moderators do a good job requiring citation for high-stakes but dubious claims about the law, crime statistics, etc and am not trying to discourage that.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6465">Jacob</a>.</p>
<p>Understood, I just don’t think we can require alleged victims to substantiate their own firsthand accounts, unless they are causing damage and we have reason to believe they are lying.</p>
<p>Often there simply isn’t a court case or media account to accompany every instance of sexual victimization.  Sometimes abuse victims don’t get their day in court, and we simply have to decide on our own whether or not to believe them.</p>
<p>Recall when we were discussing the murder of a Nebraska registrant on this forum, and one of that registrant’s victims came into the discussion and shared her side of that registrant’s story? We (rightly, I think), did not demand additional evidence of her because there was none, he was never prosecuted for it.  But many people believed her, and I think she eventually came to understand that FAC and victims in many ways are on the same side.</p>
<p>Perhaps our volunteer moderators were simply skeptical of MOM’s story and that was the reason for requiring citation.  Sometimes incidents that can’t be adjudicated, result in complaint to a lawmaker instead. I just want to be careful not to make alleged victims think that we are calling them liars or whatnot.  Perhaps I’m in the minority in this view, but more victims need to be part of the discussion.</p>
<p>I think our volunteer moderators do a good job requiring citation for high-stakes but dubious claims about the law, crime statistics, etc and am not trying to discourage that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dustin		</title>
		<link>https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-3/#comment-6466</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dustin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2023 07:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://floridaactioncommittee.org/?p=6483#comment-6466</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[First, bills aren&#039;t &quot;founded&quot;, they&#039;re written or proposed. Second, if that story is true, your problem is with an individual, not an entire subclass of citizens. Third, again if the story is true, that individual violated parole by attempting to contact a minor and was sent back to prison anyway, assuming you reported it. Problem solved, no new law needed.

{MODERATED}]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, bills aren&#8217;t &#8220;founded&#8221;, they&#8217;re written or proposed. Second, if that story is true, your problem is with an individual, not an entire subclass of citizens. Third, again if the story is true, that individual violated parole by attempting to contact a minor and was sent back to prison anyway, assuming you reported it. Problem solved, no new law needed.</p>
<p>{MODERATED}</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Jacob		</title>
		<link>https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6465</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jacob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2023 01:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://floridaactioncommittee.org/?p=6483#comment-6465</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6464&quot;&gt;MOM&lt;/a&gt;.

FAC note cites lack of supporting evidence.  But commenter’s account strikes me as straightforward.  Supporting evidence of what, exactly?

It also seems apparent that the law described here, unpleasant as it is, would have reduced the likelihood of the incident described by the commenter.  Right?  Perhaps our complaint about this law is that it os not narrowly tailored.

&lt;strong&gt;{FAC: Evidence that the event actually occurred e.g. a news article, court filing, etc.}&lt;/strong&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6464">MOM</a>.</p>
<p>FAC note cites lack of supporting evidence.  But commenter’s account strikes me as straightforward.  Supporting evidence of what, exactly?</p>
<p>It also seems apparent that the law described here, unpleasant as it is, would have reduced the likelihood of the incident described by the commenter.  Right?  Perhaps our complaint about this law is that it os not narrowly tailored.</p>
<p><strong>{FAC: Evidence that the event actually occurred e.g. a news article, court filing, etc.}</strong></p>
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		<title>
		By: MOM		</title>
		<link>https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6464</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MOM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Mar 2023 15:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://floridaactioncommittee.org/?p=6483#comment-6464</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6446&quot;&gt;Karen&lt;/a&gt;.

I am the founder of this bill.  A known sex offender was sent into my home.  He was on felony probation with an ankle monitor which we could not see.  He left a note in my 13 year olds panty drawer that said &quot;Call me. I moved you and included his #.  When the moving company arrived that day they saw my purse sitting on the counter and asked that I remove all valuables.  My most precious valuables are my kids and I had no idea they were in harms way during that 10.5 hour move.  It SHOULD have already been a law and since it wasn&#039;t, I made sure it was in the future.

[FAC NOTE: Comment claims lack supporting evidence. Despite this, approving for productive discussion and potential to increase understanding of why this law could feel necessary to some.]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6446">Karen</a>.</p>
<p>I am the founder of this bill.  A known sex offender was sent into my home.  He was on felony probation with an ankle monitor which we could not see.  He left a note in my 13 year olds panty drawer that said &#8220;Call me. I moved you and included his #.  When the moving company arrived that day they saw my purse sitting on the counter and asked that I remove all valuables.  My most precious valuables are my kids and I had no idea they were in harms way during that 10.5 hour move.  It SHOULD have already been a law and since it wasn&#8217;t, I made sure it was in the future.</p>
<p>[FAC NOTE: Comment claims lack supporting evidence. Despite this, approving for productive discussion and potential to increase understanding of why this law could feel necessary to some.]</p>
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		<title>
		By: Capt Charles Munsey Jr. USN (Ret)		</title>
		<link>https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-1/#comment-6463</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Capt Charles Munsey Jr. USN (Ret)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2017 17:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://floridaactioncommittee.org/?p=6483#comment-6463</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-1/#comment-6441&quot;&gt;anthony jones&lt;/a&gt;.

I do believe they had to wear a large Star of David externally on their clothing.  The idea of a Scarlet Letter is still the same.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-1/#comment-6441">anthony jones</a>.</p>
<p>I do believe they had to wear a large Star of David externally on their clothing.  The idea of a Scarlet Letter is still the same.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Capt Charles Munsey Jr. USN (Ret)		</title>
		<link>https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6462</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Capt Charles Munsey Jr. USN (Ret)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2017 17:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://floridaactioncommittee.org/?p=6483#comment-6462</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6460&quot;&gt;ds 18 Bravo E7 US Army&lt;/a&gt;.

It is against Florida for an unmarried male and female to cohabitate.  It&#039;s an old law that in today&#039;s atmosphere is mainly ignored.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-2/#comment-6460">ds 18 Bravo E7 US Army</a>.</p>
<p>It is against Florida for an unmarried male and female to cohabitate.  It&#8217;s an old law that in today&#8217;s atmosphere is mainly ignored.</p>
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		<title>
		By: JV		</title>
		<link>https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-1/#comment-6461</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://floridaactioncommittee.org/?p=6483#comment-6461</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-1/#comment-6441&quot;&gt;anthony jones&lt;/a&gt;.

No joke. I&#039;ve been afraid of that for years now. It gives me unbelievable anxiety.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://floridaactioncommittee.org/bill-requires-moving-companies-disclose-employed-sex-offenders/comment-page-1/#comment-6441">anthony jones</a>.</p>
<p>No joke. I&#8217;ve been afraid of that for years now. It gives me unbelievable anxiety.</p>
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