There are several things that strike me as incredible from the most recent Florida online sex sting.
(1) People still fall for this BS! Honestly, after decades of police pulling the same scam, unless you’ve been under a rock for 20 years, you have to know that the only minors trying to meet up with adults on Craigslist are police officers! Even Dateline’s “To Catch a Predator” got played out after a dozen years.
(2) The Walton County sting took five (5) days and according to this article; “Walton County Sheriff’s Office hosted the operation with help of area agencies including Panama City Beach Police, Escambia County Sheriff’s Office, Okaloosa County Sheriff’s Office, Pensacola Police Department, Gulf Breeze Police Department and other Florida agencies including Gainesville Police Department, Tallahassee Police Department, Wakulla County Sheriff’s Office and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.” Eight (8) men were arrested. WHAT?!?!?!? The operation took five days and involved ten (yes, 10) law enforcement agencies and they only arrested eight people? You need to wonder whether the resources spent entrapping people could have been better spent protecting real children, rather than fictitious ones.
(3) These sites where the alleged predators were caught, are all sites whose terms and conditions expressly require users to be over 18, so the presumption is that anyone they are seeking to meet would be an adult. Craigslist, the most common site of stings, contains a separate disclaimer before you can even click on the personal ads, that says, “By clicking the link below you confirm that you are 18 or older and understand personals may include adult content.”. If ten law enforcement agencies only caught eight people in 5 days, clearly these sites are not a playground for pedophiles, so it’s really unlikely that any of these men went to the site with the intention of finding children.
(4) Sheriffs are very quick to issue press releases outing the people they arrested, but not so open about the conviction rates. A report from Florida News Station, WTFV, found the results of a Volusia County sting “[t]wo years after the arrests, one case is still pending and 15 men were convicted of a sex crime, but seven either had their charges dropped or were convicted of lesser, non-sex crimes” and a similar sting in Orange County, “31 men were arrested: six men still have cases pending, 16 were convicted of a sex crime, and nine either had their charges dropped or were convicted of lesser charges that did not carry the sex offender registry.” Most will take a plea, rather than risk substantial time and embarrassment, but of the ones that fight the charges, in too many cases courts are finding that these people had no intention of soliciting a child and but for the actions of law enforcement, no “crime” was in danger of being committed.
These stings make great headlines for law enforcement agencies and create easy fishing for them to seize property, even when no charges are brought. But, in reality, there is very little return on the law enforcement investment. At a time where the State of Florida has a backlog of over ten thousand rape kits that have not been tested and we are scrambling for ways to protect children from mass-shootings in their schools, the most incredible thing to me is that the public is not more outraged by these stings… er, scams!
A side question: I know there were only 2 or 3 cases where Facebook had a role in the commission of a child sex offense (out of 2 BILLION Facebook users) that led to the brilliance of banning all registrants from social media. Were those a result of stings? Can’t help but wonder…
You’re all just a bunch of criminals who got caught and are whining because you got caught. Not one intelligent word has been spoken here.
You are all a bunch of sick bastards. Good for law enforcement for arresting you. How pathetic and cowardly every one on this page is. God it makes me sick. May you all rot with the thoughts in your mind. Excuses are so pathetic.
@Audry
Are you a Saint? Have you followed every single rule everyday of your life including those you did not know about?
Pretty sure the answer is NO. That and the simple fact that most of those that bark the loudest have the most to hide maybe why your post was laced with Venom.
May you never have to experience first-hand (or any hand for that matter) the constant re-criminalization and daily persecution that is the Registry. The constant Stigma and reminders is an incredible burden to bear that is not necessary for ALL people that have been charged or convicted of a “Sex Crime” as that label itself is remarkably obscured within the Statutes of the “Law” for reasons that far extend beyond Public Safety.
It would be both Prudent and Wise for you to research and delve into the reality that is current proven statistical and measurable data before throwing a stone in a Glass House.
Anon for now
“Judge not that ye be judged”. It is so comforting to know that Jesus has sent a clone to live amongst us. Must be nice to be sinless!
Here in Duval County it seems like we have a teacher every week getting arrested on child sex charges. A first coast high teacher was just arrested in distribution of child porn. And all you see on the news is how could the schools hire someone like that. There needs to be better laws in place to prevent this. These idiots think stringer sex offender laws will prevent these crimes. This guy has never had a felony been married for 20 years you can’t prevent this from happening, why can’t the public understand this. More/stronger sex offender laws would not change this out come.
Here is a question, if we all know that the stings are shady and law enforcement’s way of obtaining funding and deepening their pockets then why isn’t someone taking this to the top and fighting to have these convictions from these sting operations overturned? I would love to fight back for my son’s case and I have smelled a rat since the day it happened. They did not want to loosen the grip on my son and the prosecution would not even entertain any dropping of the charges, but yet others have had the same charges lessened or even dropped. Something just hasn’t felt right in my gut about my son’s case and I am still unsettled about it. The more and more I read about these sting operations, the more I am wondering if there is something in my son’s case that they are trying to hide and that is why they kept trying to push to sweep it under the rug as quickly as they could. I have been on to them since the beginning but how do we prove to what seems to be a very lopsided court system in Florida? Maybe a class action for all those convicted as a result of these sting operations would begin to turn the heads of the public. Would love to find another lawyer willing to look at my son’s case cause there is definitely more than meets the eye here. Lies upon lies and the prosecution gets away with it. And since when does the state prosecution have more of a say so than a judge in a courtroom. Sorry, I live in a state where the judge rules the courtroom and makes the decisions not the state prosecutor. Never have I ever seen such a backwards system than the one in Florida. Sorry for the vent…just looking for some answers and possible suggestions.
DVH, you have to answer your own question. You wonder why someone isn’t fighting the convictions, but then suggest you would want to revisit your son’s case. Did he fight his conviction? Take it to trial? Appeal?
If not, and he took a plea, you should ask him why. Yes, people have, in fact, fought back and been acquitted. People, I’m sure, fought and were convicted.
Every case is unique and if you want to appeal your son’s case, it can’t be part of a “class action” criminal case, unless he had direct co-defendants.
If anything I am just baffled as to how anything works In Florida. I don’t understand and I am trying to. While I find the information you post here helpful I wonder as to how we can go about applying it to what we are going through. I feel completely helpless but yet want to fight and stand up. Maybe I don’t present things correctly and therefore always feel like when I do I am on my own and told to figure it out myself. It hasn’t been easy for us as I am sure no one on here has had it easy but I don’t know where to begin. Our son took what he felt was the only thing he could do. He didn’t have the best of counsel and we have never dealt with anything like this before. I feel like we just keep beating our heads up against a wall and this is our life without our son.
DVH – hang in there. To better explain my response, FAC focuses on the sanctions imposed on ALL registrants after they have served their sentence (ie: registration, residency restrictions, public notification, etc.). We don’t involve ourselves in an individual’s underlying criminal case that landed them on the registry.
Reasons are:
1) the registry requirements are imposed universally and to all members. Each individual’s criminal case is unique to them.
2) Criminal defendants should ONLY take guidance from their attorney. FAC is not a law firm, we are not licensed nor qualified to give legal advise.
It would be very irresponsible for anyone (even an attorney) to give you advise on the merits of an appeal to your son’s case without looking at the pleadings and the evidence against him.
If you want to explore options. I suggest contacting a criminal defense attorney who (a) specializes in appeals and post-conviction relief, and (b) sex offenses. Since he’s likely no longer eligible for a public defender (his case has been dispositioned), you’ll unfortunately have to get a private attorney, which will unfortunately cost money. I doubt you can find one that will do it for free, but you can try asking around – you may get a free consultation but for someone to dig into the file, review everything and come to an opinion, count on spending some money.
If you ask how many appeals they have pending or filed this year and they say “none” – move on. If you ask how many registrants they have as clients – move on. If they tell you “your son can file …” without looking at the docket, his charging documents and sentencing documents – move on.
Most who have never had to deal with anything like this before, such as yourself, are flying blind and while it should be a great thing to have no experience with criminal matters, it’s not once you’re in this mess.
There are also factors completely outside the “legal” realm that weigh into these cases. In Florida, you have judges that are elected and have their own biases. If they are conservatives up for re-election, it may not matter if you’re completely innocent. You also have counties with different agendas. You have sheriffs, such as Shady Grady out of Polk, who has made these stings his life’s mission. Half his County can be strung out on Meth and burglarizing houses, but the police are too busy to care because they are pretending to be 12 year olds on Craigslist.
I strongly encourage you to contact membership and volunteer. They will guide you on how to become involved. Regardless of how your son’s criminal case goes, he will eventually get out. He will need a roof over his head and the opportunity to earn a living, and things you do now to help better the chances he will have of accomplishing those things, will make life easier for him when he gets out.
Actually DVH they are partial right , Your Sons case if you have proof of a violation of Due Process Rights , that may have been denied to your Son , In his conviction. Can be challenged . I, do not know how long his Case falls back . Yet he also has the Right to file a Habeas Corpus , for Relief if He was convicted Illegally , or again outside the Law . The relief sought will be violations that may have been Imposed on Him , during The Arrest , and the ineffective assistance of Council , the lawyer that represented Him during the hearings . Did the lawyer file any ” Pre Trial Motions , trying to get the Case dismissed ? Did the Lawyer conduct a Brady Interview , of all State Witnesses before he your son plead guilty ? Did his lawyer come to jail throughout his Pre-Trial time in jail to go over strategies ? If the answer is NO to any of these questions , YES he can file a motion to withdraw his guilty plea under Case Federal Read : US vs COUTO , 311 F.3d 179 ( 2nd Cir ) This is a Federal Case . Please look it up for clarification. There are several ways to turn a case around No matter how Old . The major theme . Is the ” Due Process ” Right Did your son get proper Due Process . was it violated . 90% of most cases are . This can be argued also in a ” State Habeas Corpus , filing . Subject Matter , Violation of Due Process , 14th Amendment . This has won cases and is worth the effort . DVH
Demetrios,
If the guy had a public defender, the likely answer to all questions is no. But if he files a habeas case, they’ll be created and back-stamped by the clerk prior to his evidentiary hearing.
You need to contact Rachel Reese esquire at O’Brien and Hatfield in Tampa she can help. Tell her April From Oklahoma sent you she should know wh ur talking about. She’s the best!!
Another example of entrapment and lying I asked for proof of age they would never provide it made every excuse not to because law enforcement no longer has to identify themselves during a investigation even when asked to do so only during an arrest. Combine that with Strict Liability and there’s your recipe for ruining someone’s life. I won’t say forever because this lunacy has to end I just hope it’s during my lifetime
First @ Capt Munsey (salute) The entrapment laws went down the toilet after the federal government couldn’t convict John Delorean allegedly attempting to by cocaine from federal agents because the court sided with the defense saying he was entrapped. After that the government did what every sore loser with power does they changed the rules and lowered the bar for convictions. Another example law enforcement is allowed to tell you a bold faced lie in order to get information or a confession you on the other hand could be hit with more charges if you lie to them.
It is absurd that this still goes on with no relief. I was also arrested in a deadline sting, and fought hard to get aquitted. This cost me everything I had and then some. The collateral damage cost me my children and after serving 5 years in prison, I am still paying. Being on the registry is bad enough but that also means that I can’t pass a background check and end result have been out of work for years, Because to anyone else their mentality Is that if your on the registry you must be a child molester. I also did not believe that the person was 14, But The Police Insisted That They Told Me And The Jury Believed Them. Not Only did it cost me everything, but 10 years later I am still paying for this even after I did my prison time. I survived prison, it wasn’t that enough torture of being harrassed, beat up and constantly demoralized by FDOC officers but to be out this long and it feels like I will be paying for the rest of my life because of going on a date with someone who wasn’t what they said they were. I’ve never been in trouble in my life, and now I look over my shoulder every step I take for fear of being hurt. Florida will not be happy until there is a barbed wire fence around the state.
Do a thousand good deeds and no one remembers; do one bad deed and no one forgets. I know the feeling but with enough effort and the right friends that can change. It tough being patient but that’s what it takes. Like my pastor said,”Show me your friends and I’ll show you your future”.
Sorry, I didn’t post the links.
US Code for Grant Money Program:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/34/subtitle-II/chapter-211/subchapter-I
Website to detective arrested for molesting boys:
http://wfla.com/2016/11/15/fdle-special-agent-supervisor-who-used-to-work-in-tampa-accused-of-abusing-children/
This is the federal US code on the grant money the Feds give these state agencies to form the ICAC task forces (Internet Crimes Against Children) and there’s a formula they use to determine how they get this money. If you read these sections carefully, you will see that one of the requirements to get the grant money is for these task forces to INCREASE the prosecutions in child sex crimes. Why do you think there were 10 agencies in on this? They all get a piece of that grant money pie. It’s the biggest scam I’ve ever seen in my life. As it was mentioned, these agencies could have better spent this time and money on figuring out how to keep their schools safer from psychos. ……..I was arrested in one of these stings in 2011. I was literally gang tackled by 6 officers in swat team gear and dragged up a flight of steps. At the top of the steps were 4 people sitting behind these HUMONGOUS computer screens and looking at my as if I just killed somebody. Ridiculous. Reminded me of one of those scenes in movies where they go into a military war room with operation control or something. It was so overkill. And to make matters worse, the FDLE detective who oversaw my sting operation and was the detective directly emailing me posing as the minor and interrogated me after I got arrested, was just himself arrested in Nov 2016 for actually molesting three 8-year old boys in a boys home. And here I am facing the music for life as a sex offender and didn’t even touch anyone, and the person directly responsible for my plight, actually did far worse than anything I could’ve imagined doing, but yet, I’m the one paying the price for that scumbag’s entrapment scam. There has to be a way out of this for all of us who got caught up in this scam and just took a plea to make it all go away and avoid having a jury nail us with 10-15 years in prison for not even talking to or touching an actual minor. But you can’t seem to find any good lawyer who’s willing to stand up for our constitutional rights and say “wait a minute, that’s not right.” I can only surmise that everyone is in on these money scams because it benefits them all and it goes around in one big circle from the law agencies, to the judges, to the lawyers, to the therapists, to the polygraph guys. It’s just all one big money making scam. Americans profiting off the pain, misery, and suffering of their fellow Americans. It’s disgusting to the core, yet everyone just sits back and accepts it as truth and justice and the American way and doesn’t challenge it or question it or stand up to it, or nothing! The motto is, if it doesn’t affect me or my family, I don’t give a shit. I hate this country. I really do. Look what it’s become! And we’ve all allowed it to get this way!
I live in a small town in a rural area. The now mayor of our town entrapped some 20 year old in a self initiated sting operation where he posed as a 12 year old girl on Facebook. Our now mayor’s claim to fame and political career was started over this sting he did all by himself. He became a hero for entrapping this guy. Now that he is mayor, he appointed his brother as borough manager. They did not post the job for the general public, and this is a $75,000.00 a year job. The mayors brother does not have the qualifications for the job, but they appointed him anyway. This is nepotism at its finest. I was one of the only people to question the appointment of the mayors brother to the borough manager position. People think that this is just fine, because the mayor is a hero for entrapping some poor bastard in a sex sting that he initiated all on his own. No one else thinks that this is weird? This is just how far out of control things have become!
The “swamp” has spread beyond DC and Tallahassee into our local small towns. “Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely”.
Like I said, I don’t know what I hate more. This country? Or how utterly ignorant my fellow citizens have become to what’s really goin on around them. We deserve to be taken over by Russia and/or China. It’s gonna happen sooner than you think.
MJ I know the scumbag to whom you are referring. In 2006 I was entrapped in an online scheme here in jackoffville. The asshole was LT. Charles “CC” McMullen and was arrested in the panhandle for molesting up to 8 HANDICAPPED boys.
This pos was even let out on bond and last I checked he’s STILL free and fighting his charges. I believe that EVERY conviction that resulted from chuckys entrapments should be exonerated just based on the fact that he was probably doing the EXACT same thing he was entrapping people for!
Google Charles McMullen arrest and you will find quite a few links to this case.
Whoa! He was an FDLE Supervisor!
Well, it seems there is NO news of this guy after the arrest. According to a MyLife page, he is living free in Milton, FL!
https://www.mylife.com/chuck-mcmullen/ltmcmullen
A classical example of the corruption in FDLE and FDOJ. This guy will never see a trial or do a day of prison. He’ll never be on the registry either.
@ FAC ” Whoa! He was an FDLE Supervisor!” Please let me know if he ever post anything here on this site. I just wanted to asked him a few questions like … How does it feel to lose family?, job? Sleep in woods ? Most of all has it feel to have a target on your back? Most of all.. how it feel to be on the same side of the fence now?
JS– oh yes, I’m well aware of his case. But every lawyer I talked to said I don’t have a case against him unless I can prove he was doing the crime at the time of or before my arrest in 2011. Do we know of any crime he was guilty of before that time? I agree, all of us should be exonerated who were arrested as a direct result of his involvement. But that would require Florida giving up convictions and probationers and inmates. And we all know that ain’t happening. I just have to relish in the fact that Chucky will never see the light of day once sentenced, while I’m sitting pretty out here in freedom. Registered, yes. But free nonetheless. I hate this Fu**in state. Which is sad, because I grew up loving it. But now I know better.
he was convicted and sentenced to 8 life terms
https://weartv.com/news/local/ex-fdle-agent-sentenced-for-child-sex-crimes
perhaps letters could be written to him
Several questions come to mind. What happened to laws against entrapment? Second, how many of those arrested were in the registry? Is it just a matter of time until the vast majority of citizens are in the registry? How many of these folks responding to Craig’s list are just doing it out of curiosity? Finally, who in the world would want to have sex with a 12 year old?
First answer, the bar is set very high to even approach a defense of entrapment in Florida. Either objective or subjective. And the defense of a legal impossibility of the fact that there is in fact no minor in the case is also moot in Florida.
Second answer, very, very few.
In response to the rest of your questions, the one I CAN answer is that these cases are not as simple as they are made out to be. There is a huge amount of salesmanship involved in these types of operations. I know it’s been said before on this site and it’s true, the law enforcement agencies that do these types of operations are federally funded to do so. Meaning they get funds to conduct them ONLY for as long as they are successful and increase the numbers they bring in. Sound familiar? It should.
The joint operations are known as ICAC or the Internet Crimes Against Children task force (Americans love their acronyms). The feds grant money to each task force and each state is supposed to have at last one. Florida has three. And yes, Judd heads the one for central Florida.
What’s worse is that these types of proactive operations are NOT in response to untenable rates of this type of criminal activity. If you were to do a records search on those arrested as a result of a sting vs those that were not you would find the sting arrests far, far outweigh those that were not. Something to keep in mind is that it is the goal of law enforcement to make arrests here and every action undertaken is to see that goal fulfilled.
Oh, law enforcement isn’t the only department that benefits from these grants. The prosecutors office also gets in on this as they receive training to be more effective in convicting those arrested.
One last thing, the dog and pony show, excuse me, the media events that are put on are also part of the funding.
Scary, isn’t it?
This guy nailed it people. He is exactly right and is saying the exact same thing that I’ve found in my research. Notice what he said. The number of people arrested in the stings FAR OUTWEIGH those who were not arrested in the stings. Meaning, there is no precedent or prior examples of an abundance of child sex crimes in the community to warrant the sheriff’s offices to conduct the stings. It is purely just for the cause of getting the grant money and making the arrest to make it APPEAR that they are doing something to the public. It is a classic example of SMOKE AND MIRRORS. And they realize that the typical, average American citizen is too STUPID to really see what’s going on and challenge this criminal behavior by it’s elected law enforcement agencies (and that’s what it is, criminal activity–an abuse of the position of authority, and a gross misrepresentation of the law). So, as long as the smoke and mirrors show is successful and the stupid American sheeple continue to believe the rhetoric and propaganda and leave stupid ignorant comments on news websites such as “fry the perverts” and “cut their d**ks off”, these operations will flourish. No one even stops to think about the end game of these evil idiots in power—-TO CONTROL AS MUCH OF AS POSSIBLE BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE. And think about it, with sex offenders, they have us controlled (and registered)…FOR LIFE!!! Like SC said at the end…….it definitely is SCARY!!! Think people….please stop, use your brains, and THINK FOR YOURSELF!!! Stop blindly listening to the TV and all the lies that come out of it.
Money can even make law enforcement lose sight of what is right and wrong. They give no pity until they need it. I guess sex offender ‘stings’ are the only thing that they can do from the comfort and safety of their offices.
@MJ, I believe that you are likely wise beyond your years, regardless of your present age. There’s so much ugliness and ignorance wrapped up within the domains of american politics and business interests.
Every time I see one of these stings I have to laugh at those who have seen the news reports yet still go to the houses. You see I was the firs one arrested in the Tampa Bay area on one of these stings almost 22 years ago. Yes 22 years ago and people are still getting arrested and you still dont know for 100% who you are talking to online. Like Noah Pransky article stated I was one of those who were not looking for an underage child. There was no texting or sexting back then so no exchanging of pictures. Yes we talked about sex but I never said or ask her to do anything to me. Heck I didnt even believe it was a female until I heard her voice. I have been on the Internet for about 5 months back in late 95 and early 96 and I had met people who liked to age play so I went to meet here to see if she was as old as she said she was. I should have listened to my spidey senses because I was arrested. I didnt have over a decade of to catch a predator on TV or these sex stings every other month. If I knew the restrictions that would be placed on me years and decades later I would have fought it harder. BTW we did beat them with case law but the judge was not going to do the right thing and said that was for a jury to decide.
These online sting charges are getting reduced to misdemeanors. Correct! The costs involved to setup fake online chatrooms, websites and the manpower to make the busts far outweighs the results. We preach again, if you are chatting with a possible date and all of a sudden the conversation turns to underage activity, do not respond. Florida leads with these online stings. If you respond even if you do not travel to a setup destination, under Florida Law you will be arrested for solicitation of a child. If you have a problem, get help! JEV
WHO is perpetuating this idiocy? Does it all go back to the Books?
The sheriff’s offices get a ton of money from the federal government. They also collect a bunch in seized assets.
Noah Pransky did a series on these a couple years back. You should look it up.
Here is the link FAC is referring to
http://www.wtsp.com/article/news/investigations/how-law-enforcement-turns-law-abiding-men-into-sexual-predators/236499759
From the article:
“Sex stings have become especially rich sources for seizures, since almost every man arrested is accused of traveling to seduce, solicit, or entice a child to commit a sexual act…even though no real children are ever involved in the stings. However, the accusations are felonies, meaning law enforcement can seize suspect’s vehicles, making it extremely difficult for them to ever get them back without paying thousands of dollars – or more – in cash to the arresting agency.”
Seems like a classic mafia shake down if you ask me. Go ahead and ask me…yes, classic mafia shake down.
For more information on sickening subject visit SexOffenderTruth.com