Would you have taken the plea had you known… ?
One of the comments that irritates me the most is “well you should have thought of that before you…”.
It was once said to me by a police officer who had just denied every single one of the proposed residences on the list I provided her because it ran afoul of their city’s residency restriction. It had been my third list of more than a dozen rentals, generated after my third trip going around the city with a realtor trying to find a compliant place to live that didn’t look like it was too close to a “place where children congregate”. I was quickly realizing the effort was pointless, because EVERYWHERE was too close to a school bus stop or place where children congregate. As I pleaded with her for guidance because I was days away from being homeless. She just looked at me and said, “well you should have thought of that before you looked at what you did.”
No, actually, I couldn’t have though about the residency restriction because it didn’t exist until years after my offense. At the time I took my plea, nearly 20 years ago, it was completely unforeseeable that someone would come up with that! Had I known that every year the screws would be tightened and new restrictions would be added to the list, I would have never taken my plea.
Which brings us to a poll (which you can answer by clicking on the “Yes” or “No” below). Results will be shared after we have collected a meaningful sample.
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My husband was not going to plead guilty to something he did not do, so after letting him sit in jail for six months and having his ex-wife change the story numerous times (and no evidence) the judge withheld adjudication. He still wound up with a felony because checks bounced during that six months that he couldn’t pay because he was incarcerated.
That same woman went on to accuse her next husband of exposing himself to her daughter as well.
The fact of the matter is that the mirror accusation of anything is enough to ruin somebody’s life. They will hold you in jail long enough to make you take any deal to get out of there, or no deal at all. And they keep adding and adding more restrictions that are felonies. Even when you try to keep up with them you will have trouble – don’t get me started on iPhones. I bought my husband iPhone, I never set up email on his phone but because it’s an iPhone, he got thrown in jail for failure to report an email address. $5000 later we got the charge dropped but it’s such bullshit. I actually have legal insurance at this point just in case something happens again like that.
Even if I had known then what I know now about registry life, I probably would have. But since my time in prison and out, I can honestly say that under no circumstances will I ever take another one.
Should I ever end up in court again, it’ll be either for an inane probation/registry violation or a false charge evidenced only by my registry status. Either way, I may initially accept a plea only to demonstrate that the court finds whatever sentence reasonable and fair. But as soon as the judge offers a chance to withdraw (they’re required to do that in Georgia), I’m pulling it back and demanding not only trial, but a speedy one. A harsher sentence is near certain, but should be beaten on appeal if it can be shown it’s only because of exercising the right to trial.
I’d love to see the reaction of the court if every single defendant with a pending case refused all plea offers and demanded SPEEDY trial. Pretty sure the first thing they’d do is reassign the public defender(s), but after that, what would they do?
I voted yes because of the gravity of the consequences had I gone to trial. The prosecutor was being considered for a judge seat by then Governor Scott and told my attorney she just wanted a conviction. She even offered a non-sex crime deal, which was thrown out by the judge when the mother of my accuser showed up in court and alleged ethical violations by the prosecutor. Then she offered a plea deal for 11/29 in county jail with 5 years of probation, and stated if I deposed my accuser she would yank the plea deal and we were going to trial where I was risking 24-120 years in prison after the prosecutor ran up the scoresheet. With the extreme punishment awaiting me, and knowing that evidence is NOT necessary to corroborate an accuser’s claims for prosecution and that juries in Florida are composed of ignorant fools, it was a no brainer for me.
I’ve since moved to a state that does a tiering system and actually affords me a hearing to determine if the Florida conviction (I plead no contest, but they treat it as guilty) is equivalent to a registrable offense in my new state. I’m still awaiting the hearing, but there’s a great chance I won’t be required to register as the age of consent is 16 in my new state. Even if I am considered Tier 1, I register once a year and that’s it. No public registry. No residency restrictions. Nothing.
Everyone’s case is different, but being on the streets with friends and family beats prison, and there are rational states that don’t have all the collateral consequences – public registries, residency restrictions, quarterly reporting, 3 day windows to report, etc. If you’re willing and able to move, get the hell out of Florida.
I would love to know what started you went to. If I could move and just have the new states requirements on a tiered system that would be amazing.
New Jersey. It does an equivalency hearing first. If you are deemed to have committed a registrable offense, you are tiered using a mostly objective scoresheet. It’s a point system. Typically high level Tier 2 and all Tier 3 registrants are on public registry, which only constitutes roughly 25% of all registrants. It beats Florida by a long shot.
Thank you for sharing, my wife is from NJ so if course on paper it sounds amazing. But housing is much more expensive, property tax is crazy, and other stuff would prevent me from moving there. I would love to, but it’s not practical with my current income situation.
I think this proves a point though, we want a solution to our woes. There is the legal option which by supporting FAC we are working on. Time, is the enemy because we all know the clock keeps ticking. So who wouldn’t love an option to just move and be free. But in reality the only real solution is to endure, pray, hope, support the cause and each other, and educate ourselves and others who will listen. If NJ didn’t have issues I’m aware of already I would go. But it doesn’t fix anything. It only takes one set of problems for another.
We are stuck here in Florida because we bought a house with the last money we had, but please understand that if you move to another state, you only have to go by what that’s states laws say. If you are currently on Florida’s registry, this state will keep you on their registry forever! We moved here from NJ in 2015, and not only in NJ, but also PA and WA, my husband could vote, move around freely without an identifier on his ID, and he was designated at the lowest level offender, with a once a year visit from one officer to verify his residence. NJDOC finally maxed him out in 2002, which should have been the end of his punishment, but every day since we moved here to Florida. Now he has to report 4 times a year, is designated at the highest level of offender, and has to pay Duval county Sherriff’s Dept. twice a year to register (talk about adding insult to injury!) I now dislike this state after spending many vacations over the past 60 years here. I’m stuck here, so I’ll keep fighting, but I agree with the person who said, if you can, move out of Florida. Be smart and don’t move to a southern state, where “states rights” still supersede what it means to be a citizen of this country, the land I still love.
@Candy, there may be some hope for some out-of-state residents to get removed from Florida’s registry in this newly filed House Bill (1055):
http://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2020/1055/BillText/Filed/PDF
I would lay good money that it won’t pass because it could potential remove thousands and cost the state millions in federal dollars.
I have to kind of disagree about “get the hell out of Florida”. That just allows them to keep doing crooked sh*t. I say we all STAY in FL and fight these idiots.
Something that’s really troubling about sex cases is this idea that someone’s WORD is all that is needed. I don’t care about actual guilt or innocence, I’m troubled by a court system that APPARENTLY says the PROSECUTION HAS TO PROVE your guilt but not if it’s a sex offense charge.
Something’s really wrong with that. Such bias needs to be addressed and handled accordingly. Maybe some prosecutors need to lose their jobs. Maybe some judges, too.
How the hell do we praise our justice system when judges won’t allow the defendants to truly defend themselves with their own evidence?
We CANNOT “get the hell out” and away from this.
You know the terminology “That’s just the way it is”? Well, if we do nothing, then that’s the way it’s always going to be. Duh
What state would that be? I would like to know!
I too caught my charge in Florida, and wound up royally screwed by the system and three highly biased female court officers, the judge, the prosecutor and her best buddy and mentor acting the public defender role for the first time in her career. It was a non-violent/no-contact charge. The second count of possession was actually false. A lot of discovery files were listed as being underage girls between 12-16 years old. All my supposed CP were actually legal adult porn and had come from sites whose portals announced that paperwork was on file to prove all participants in the videos were 18 years of age or older. When I tried to point this out to my public defender, she said it didn’t matter, that if actual porn of any sort was brought in as evidence, the judge-(a young mother) would be so incensed as to declare it child porn anyway and I’d be convicted. I was bone ignorant of judicial arcanities at the time, and was brow-beaten and psychologically vulnerable enough at the time to accept my female attorney’s advice to offer the false plea to avoid a trial and three times longer exposure to jail time. If I had only known that my whole arrest and conviction were highly illegal and should have been tossed out “as the fruit of the poison tree”. I argued that in my 2255 later, but the magistrate-a toady of the female district judge in my case said I could have argued all that in pretrial and trial. Basically he said “You pled, you’re dead!” He should have added “buried” to that as well.
The ‘trial tax’ penalty that those being adjudicated face if they choose to go forward with their constitution right should be clearly communicated frequently to Florida state and federal legislators. I have listened to attorneys voice their disdain for such punishment on top of a pending punishment.
This issue isn’t discussed enough out there. I did see it called out a bit on a show I’ve been watching on Netflix called I Am A Killer.
I question how this works, though. I mean, aren’t the charging statutes explained to the jury? So if the State says we’re going to charge you for a higher crime, are they not setting themselves up for failure at trial? If I shoplift and the prosecutor threatens to charge me with armed robbery, won’t your average person/jury, by instruction from the court, have to find not guilty? Because my cringe never met the definition of armed robbery? Or do they prosecute both the lower actual offense and just add in the higher one as a gamble since you could be found guilty of the lower charge still?
Or does it all boil down to sentencing? In other words, are plea deals more about getting a lower sentence for the same charge rather than riding receipt of the maximum?
To F.A.C
Please more polls and activities that get us involved like this in the future. I, and sure many others, enjoyed this as it was very interactive and got us discussing things that gets us to see if we are all on the same page in thought and ideas. It is eye opening to see I was not the only one who got railroaded by the courts.
CherokeeJack
How about this….When I told Ron Kleiner that failing to register was not an offense, it sounded like he wanted to jump through the phone, reminescent of Ron Book and the infamous “I’ll chase you until you die” mentality. It’s whatever at this point. I think the whole deal here is pretty sus, and I’m about to do my own reporting.
Mike, sounds like Ron is trying to save you from yourself. Whatever wording you want to use, failure to register is a serious violation of the law with extremely serious consequences. You’re playing with your freedom when you start bending and contorting terms and phrases. It’s not going to save you from arrest and prosecution. You should be thanking Mr. Kleiner 😭
I agree. More polls. But even better are sanctioned surveys from research, civil rights, and law organizations for use in effecting better policies. The tough part about some of them is they require identity, which makes them more credible but also causes anxiety for some, probably most, of us. Fear of retaliation isn’t unreasonable but I am starting to believe it’s overblown. Hell, our PII is already published for all to see, including crazed vigilantes.
I took a plea deal only because I was really scared and didn’t really know what to do. I was 18 but my offense happened when I was 17, I wish I would of never taken the plea deal knowing what I know now. I’m 45 years old and I have two grown children one of them is currently living with me. My offense was in 09/28/93 and I was charged as a minor 2 counts L&L
Maryland no longer requires RC’s, whose offence pre-dated Sept. 1995, to register. However, you might still have to deal with federal SORNA regulations. If anyone knows how this works, at the federal level in Maryland, please respond.
You would think Florida lawyers could use case study evidence from those states as a court win.
My case was from 1991 but I have to register until I die, then they said they would dig me up every 90 days to register even after I die. They will take my bony skeleton hand and help me sign the paperwork then rebury me.
No registry even existed back then. When sentenced you were told once you did your time, stay out of trouble and you will be fine. Such a lie.
I would even offer to serve 6 months in middle east war for free if I could get my record wiped clean.