Is Lifetime Sex Offender Registration Worse than Jail?
In the comments of a recent article I saw someone reference Dr. Marty Klein as an expert in sexual issues. I had not heard of Dr. Klein, so I did a little digging to see who he was and how he felt about our issues.
It turns out Dr. Klein is a renowned expert and lecturer on sexual topics. He’s a forensic expert who has written 7 books on topics such as pornography and even one called “America’s War on Sex”, which I feel I’ve been battling for decades now.
I came across one of his twitter posts, in which he wrote, “Lifetime #SexOffender registration is far worse than jail–so why are people trying to recall Judge Persky?” He wrote this several months ago in response to the public outcry over the Judge who sentenced Brock Turner, the Stanford student who received what many perceived as an overly lenient sentence for a sexual assault.
However, to anyone on the registry, a sentence of life on the sex offender registry is tantamount to a death sentence. Sure you are still alive, but you are socially dead, professionally dead and because of the extreme stigma, dead to many friends and family who fear that the association to you will destroy them also.
Dr. Klein explained his comments by saying, “As a lifetime registered sex offender, Brock Turner’s life is pretty much over. Months in jail, years in jail—as awful as that is, it’s most certainly LESS awful than being a registered sex offender for life… And by pretending that lifetime sex offender registration is a light sentence or a trivial detail, we continue to dehumanize those whose lives are ruined by it. While three years in prison may feel like a lifetime, it’s absolutely nothing in comparison to spending an actual lifetime as a registered sex offender.”
I’ve often wondered which element of my punishment was worse. Prison or being on the registry?
I did three years in prison. Sure, it was awful being separated from my family and the accommodations were horrible, but I survived. Each day I was able to cross another day off my calendar and know that this would eventually end. But the registry (in Florida, at least) is not like that. There is no end in sight and it seems that every year the government-imposed torture becomes worse.
If I could do some extra time in prison as a substitute for a lifetime on the registry would I take it? Would I even take five more years just to know that I’ll eventually be able to come out and become employable again, be able to live wherever a want, or not walk around my community with this palpable cloud lingering around me? Hell yes I would!
For more information about Dr. Kline: https://www.martyklein.com
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Tough question. Had I been offered an extra year or two on the inside and not been put on the registry, I would have taken it. But I got the okey-doke. My ineffectual counsel had me sign regular probation papers when I took the plea, then, low and behold, I was handed Sex Offender probation papers to sign at the sentencing hearing! The weasel told me to take it or they would withdraw the plea deal. WTF was I to do? I faced 75 years in a trial by a jury of my “peers.” So I bent over and took it like a man. But now, I would never go back to prison to get off the registry. It’s much easier to move to a more tolerant state than face getting killed in prison by a self-righteous zealot.
FAC, you may want to have legal look at this as it may be helpful somewhere
https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/624595-inheriting-a-sexually-violent-predator-against-children-tenant
and also discussion here: https://all4consolaws.org/2018/11/dirty-landlords-openly-discuss-how-to-remove-a-registrant-tenant-during-a-property-takeover/comment-page-1/#comment-216770
This question been nagging me all day, Some of us took plea bargains made deals with the Federal and/or State Attorney If the Goverment could not honor the plea deals and allowed law makers to add more Punitive punishments. What makes a person think that somehow or some loophole can’t be found to say nope it won’t count.Think about it You did your time now you wanna do more time to get off the registry, Some of us were convicted way before 1994 when Meagan came out. I would be willing to exchange my ex friends and family instead since they care more about what others think rather then giving me support.Yeah I give that up
Actually a good question: my plea was with the federal govt. signed off and approved by them. Federal probation and all: everything done via mail between 1996 and deal in 1999. Went to a courtroom maybe twice: how is a state adding onto this? Is this actually constitutional?
Dear JM, you make a very good issue since you and many of us were convicted in federal courts, not state courts. My defense brought this issue at my federal sentencing…that is, a federal judge can’t order a federal defendant to register on a state registration since it’s a different sovereignty. But the judge did it any and the court of appeals for the eleventh circuit affirmed. I agree with you obviously, this is unconstitutional but once again the Court’s don’t seem to care.
I never spent a single night in jail, so I can’t say. I just hear about how the treat folks like us in prison. I have been on the registry since 2000. No prison time, no house arrest just 8 years of straight probation early terminated after 6 years. I worked for the family biusnoess up until April and what I have found is that even companies that say they hire people will records will not hire me even though I am the most overqualified candidate in most if not all cases. I got offers from FIS and IKEA. They ran the background check. They went back 10 and 7 years on the court record side like they said they would and found nothing. BUT, of course, they got a hit on the national sex offender registry. Both sent me notice of their intent to take “adverse action” and gave me the chance to explain. Still took the adverse action. IKEA said that they only look back 7 years, yet when they report came out, the company had not only said that I was on the registry, but listed the specifics of the 18 year old convictions. How the hell do you fix that? Do you come off of the national registry of you move to another state and get removed or does Florida keep you on there? Does it matter as you are still on the Florida registry even of you move to Madagascar and die?
If you move to another state or to Madagascar and die, you will remain on the Florida registry.
FAC’s Out Of State challenge, if fully funded, might change that. So might a change in the legislature, if they follow the recent trend of some other states in terms of lifetime registration.
Without a change in the law, you might be eligible to petition out 25 years after the end of your probation, or 2031. Sooner, if FAC’s ex post facto challenge is successful. Or one year after your death.
My question is does Florida keep you on the NATIONAL registry even after you move from their jurisdiction or do they leave that up to the state that yo move to? Would say Georgia, send a notice saying this guy has been removed and then you would be removed? I use Georgia because it requires a court to remove you as opposed to Vermont where it is automatic.
National list is different requirement. If im not mistaken. Ive been off fed sorna for years and only on a list due to florida
The national “registry” is nothing more than a compilation of state registries.
So, so long as you remain on any state registry, you remain on the national registry.
I hope I’m wrong about this, but that is my understanding. And one of the main reasons for finding FAC’s Out of State Challenge lawsuit.
It doesn’t matter. The whole ” ban the box ” thing is an utter joke. Yes, they don’t ask about your convictions on the application and they don’t even ask about your conviction during the interviews, but they all do a background check regardless. What is the point of banning the box, if you’re going to do a background check regardless ? It is ridiculous. I have a whole list of the companies that claim themselves to ban the box and hire ex felons, and have applied to 7 of the big retail companies that supposedly give second chances and ban the box. I have nailed every single one of my interviews. I even had 2nd interviews with top management and they all loved me. first, I was the only one who would interview wearing a suit and tie. The rest of the candidates in the waiting interview lobby area – all in shorts and some even wearing sandals. I’m old school so, you’ll always catch me – clean cut, wearing a suit and tie. I look like the CEO of a fortune 500 company one manager told me. Some managers even confessed to me they felt overwhelmed as if I was giving the interview. I would leave the interviews coming out of their office laughing it up with them and shaking hands and they tap me on my shoulders like we were old buddies. One manager was so excited about hiring me, that he set me up quickly and even put me on the work schedule that same day. But it’s always the same thing. Keep in mind it is not the individual store or place, it is corporate headquarters that intervenes and they have an investigative consumer report company contracted to screen for criminal background. Even if they only go back 3 years and your sentence completed 10 years ago with a case that is 30 years old, the sex offender registry always pops up – and you’re pretty much done for. They do hire some felons, but not if you’re on the registry. I spoke with one of the investigative consumer report companies which conducts the investigation and the rep told me that most companies ( their clients ) request specifically that nobody on the sex offender registry is to be eligible to work in mostly the big retail chains. I was going to keep applying to collect all the rejection letters so maybe I can show a court proof of hindrance to life, liberty and happiness, but it’s not fun and almost exhausting to dress up nice for interviews and to impress just to get rejected all over again in the end. Oh by the way, while waiting for an interview in the lobby of one of the big chain stores, there was a 19 year old kid waiting as well. Good kid, but a little misguided. He told me he felt bad because I was in a suit and he looked like he was about to perform on stage in a 1990’s alternative rock band. We talked while we waited. I never got his name so I just refer to him as ” rocker dude “. Anyhow, the kid asked me if they do drug tests. I told him, maybe not during the actual interview, but probably down the road if they hire you. He was like good, because I’m under the influence of marijuana right now(he did smell like it a bit). Well, guess what ? He is working there right now and not me even though my resume experience and work ethics were far superior. God bless America.
In what state was your probation terminated early. Was it Fla and if yes what was your lawyer’s name? Thanks
My Probation was terminated 2 years early !! I was sentenced to 6 years and did 4, Would have only did 3 but I got a new P.O. right when I was going to file for early term !! Ended up doing another year because of her ! BUT, I did finally get into court and the Judge Ended my Probation early without ANY lingering Requirements !! BUY, The Registery has PILED IT ON !! What makes it so sad and STUPID is, I have to do MORE now (Making multiple trips to the Sheriff Dept to change this or that, Update this and that) than I did while ON PROBATION !!!. And that is WRONG !!. Anyway, I think my Lawyer was getting out of the “Criminal Side ” of things and going towards “Injury Claims” but you can look him up, He was pretty good, Too bad I did use him in the beginning !! He said that the MOST I would have gotten would have been a “Child Abuse” Conviction !!. Instead of a Lewd Battery !!. His name is Kevin Cox, Lakeland FL. He was a State Park and and is pretty good !!. Good Luck.
I would have likely been terminated in 4.5 years in late 2004/early 2005 instead of 6 but the therapist, who actually is a decent guy, added a no pay 12 month or more accurately 12 monthly session (took me like 15-16 to finish because of a couple of canceled sessions and one where I was sick) “aftercare” requirement after someone who he had graduated from Level 4 was arrested for a new sex offense three weeks after that. I had graduated form Level 4 in like November of 2004, but the judge said that the aftercare was now part of the statutorily required therapy in Hillsborough, so you had to finish that. What was weird is that I was asking for something else (international travel…..ironic, no?) thinking that nobody was getting early terminated any more in 2006 and the State Attorney suggested that my lawyer make an oral motion for early termination. Inliek every other time I went to court to ask for something, no matter now insignificant, neither the State Attorney nor Parole and probation objected. It was quite bizarre and the last “positive” thing that happened to me in court, etc.
For those that are chronically homeless, as in Miami-Dade, out on registry is worse than prison.
But for those with a roof over their head, is prison better? Puh-lease. No! For virtually everyone else, being out on the registry is better.
Things as simple as: chilling with a friend or family member in private; talking on a long phone call; hopping in the car to run an errand at Publix (or get takeout); even posting on this forum—
All of these, and many more, would be viewed as luxuries by almost any prisoner.
Somebody brought up the point that there may be things dangled in front of you that you cannot access. But that problem may be even worse in prison.
And I would agree with those who would be willing to accept a little prison time in exchange for a lot less registry time. If such a deal existed.
That’s what we’re talking about… NOT life in prison as the alternative, but would you do a year in prison to wipe out lifetime registration? If that offer existed there would be a lineup at the door.
Rest assured you can count me in. If there were an offer on the table, I’d be one of the first in line. And, if they offered to wipe out my record completely from existence – like it never happened – that your life can go on like it was before you got arrested with the full benefits and opportunities of a regular civilian??? Shit, I’d do another year ( 2 years ) with no hesitation whatsoever.
Same here Bobby. In a heartbeat for both of those offers and for those who think 1 or 2 years isn’t long enough, then you really have never done any time. Time inside the joint is not the same as time outside in the real world. As a matter of fact, it’s almost as if the clock slows down and stops moving ( complete psychological punishment ). 3 days in jail feels like 3 weeks, 3 weeks feels like 3 months and 3 months feels like a lifetime.
That’s a good offer!
In the feds, please. Low security.
The feds classified me as “low risk” based on a lack of criminal history and no propensity for violence. So, they designated me for placement in a medium-low “correctional institution” for five years on a constructive possession of cp charge. Trust me when I say, I’d much rather be back in prison than on Floriduh’s lifetime registry. To make matters worse, federal probation deems all sex offenders as “high risk” even though it’s the same government that classified me as “low risk.” Ive taken their post conviction risk assessments time and time again with no indication of problems according to my probation officers. Yet, they
keep me as high risk despite their own tests! Hypocrites! And to address what someone else said, yes I can go to Publix or watch my own TV and change channels when I want. I can do many things that I couldn’t do in prison. But the reality is I had more freedoms and got more respect (from other inmates and guards alike) and had more human dignity in prison than on the outside. I even found a responsible and respectable job in prison. But iut here I can’t even date a woman without her having to go through a background check and third party disclosure about me by the feds. No family. No friends. No job. No basic human dignity. Life isn’t worth living like this. My only solace is having a voice through FAC. For that I thank all of you.
If there was such a deal, I would have done my statutory maximum of ten years in prison with a guilty plea instead of going to trial in what the judge described as a circumstantial case to avoid registration. Nobody knows why juries return verdicts they way they do. A criminal case is more of a crap shoot in our legal system of trials and plea deals. In my case I got snake eyes. But if there was a deal that absolutely guaranteed no registration in exchange for more prison time…well friends, I would’ve taken it. But as we know, even plea deals that guarantee no registration aren’t worth the paper they’re written on. So, life for me as I once knew it is gone. Life on the registration is barely even an existence…it’s truely being The Real Walking Dead.
I’m not even a registered citizen and even I would take that deal if I was to be designated one.
I would not take that chance one year in prison to get off life time Knowing how the Florida Prison system is I would be catching more time for defending myself. If they gave me an incentive maybe if they said I send you to a soft camp like Zephyrhills C.I or N.F.R.C (Lake Butler) then yeah I might take that chance. I was in Prison from the 90’s till 2011. I have see stuff back then that if I were to tell people of the horrors I would be accused of making it up. If I did not trust GOD for his protection I don’t really know if I would make it the First ten(10) years were very hard for me Older and wiser convicts playing games I had to fight every other month and the guards were pieces of crap they would encourage the fighting I went to A.C.I east unit. Even in confinement showers fights and mangerment loafs for food. The most saddest part is watching an Inmate hang themselves and shaking the bars and calling and screaming for help after 30 minutes then have a correctional stand there acting like Elmer Fudd not knowing what to do .
Joseph, I think an attorney can motion a court to be placed at a specific prison camp to do the year or two.
@Bobby thank you for your reply, If I could had hired a private attorney instead of giving a public pretender I would not been on the Registry to begin with. One want money and the other want to plea deal..Which one would rather have?
@Joseph
Truth is, it depends on the individual person – whether that is a private attorney or a public defender. To be fair, I’ve seen ” some ” public defenders do awesome things and deals for inmates – including sex crimes. I know of a guy that had an L&L battery and his public defender fought like hell to reduce the charges to a non sexual offense, so he wouldn’t have to register. On the other hand, I’ve seen $20k to $40k attorneys do nothing and rail road their clients even getting any plea deal to get rid of the client and on to the next. With a public defender, it’s the luck of the draw, because the courts assigned cases to them, you don’t pick them. So it’s like a Russian roulette kind of thing. You might get lucky or not. Now, with a private attorney, do your research very thoroughly. It took me an entire year, yes a whole year to the ” T ” 365 days, to find the perfect one for me to get me off probation. for me, she had to be female (easier to talk to and more compassionate), around my age range, because it was important to me that we communicated like if we were best friends or even my sister. That’s important. She had a few years experience as a prosecutor and as a defense attorney. Which was perfect. Not too much, not too little (so she was hungry for more experience to gather more wins to her resume and I saw that in her eyes) . She successfully terminated my probation and it only costed me $2,000 bucs. Best money I ever spent.
A reasonable price with excellent service. Don’t just open the yellow pages and pick the first thing you see. Take your time doing research, meet the attorney, see if there is chemistry. Find out everything about them. It also helps if you do your homework on your case during your search, so when you pick your attorney, you give them all that info and research you compiled on your case, and let them build the case sorting out what is useful from what you gave them. There are never guarantees of a win or loss, because there are other factors involved.
Personally….screw these rhetoric based, paranoid, politically driven laws,restrictions etc. Screw prison too! that is not living. Don’t let them dictate who you are….let them worry about the past you’ve put behind you. Don’t give up or give in. Don’t give them the satisfaction. I use the word screw not to curse.
I am not a Florida registrant but worse…Texas. 14 and a half years on a 15 year sentence, passed all rehabilitative classes and requisites and I still have to register lifelong. I no longer live in Texas but i still have to go to the sheriff’s office every 3 months, I cannot get a job…NO-ONE will hire me. If it wasn’t for my VA disability I would be either on the street or dead. I did my time in one of the countries worst prison systems and I (we) still pay.
I am waiting on a background screen to complete for a job offer in IT that was extended to me last week. I sincerely hope that my application will not be scuttled by this, but in my opinion, it won’t matter. I have family in IT that have been urging me to go freelance as a programmer/developer. I have some experience and aptitude, and there are freelance sites that offer one-time gigs which are negotiated fairly casually, with the registry being a non-issue as these opportunities are all remote-based work. If you have an aptitude for programming, get some experience with online schools such as Codecademy and put yourself out there to be hired. It’s a way to get started. As you get more experienced, you can have a spouse set up an LLC and hire you. Now you’re in business for yourself where most clients won’t care about your background! (If your spouse won’t hire you b/c of your background, I can’t help you with that!)
Best wishes all. I know it’s rough out there, but let me tell you: I have faith that God will take care of me and my family, and He hasn’t let me down yet. Get to know Him and you’ll see what I mean!
Be blessed!
i been a member of the hit list price club for 19 years! i will say this even if this sh#* ended today the mental deterioration it has taken on me will never return. I would still be just like a hermit crab, that stays isolated as i no longer know how to properly interact with people, etc… So the win! I can’t wait until the day i die so I’m out of this world. not knowing what second you will be arrested for violating some stupid F*&ked law perhaps i long ago had an email i forgot to tell the saints and someone from long ago emails me and i receive well I’m in violation! i wonder how many people that had enough keep a gun by them all times for if the cops come to arrest them for some BS they will have a gunfight as there is nothing more to lose!
DILLY DILLY!!!!! 20 years here. Can’t wait to die.
Almost 19 years here as well. I know how you feel. This sucks.