Our apologies: a member pointed out the following bill was intended to circumvent a Florida Appellate District Court opinion that someone’s obligation to register does not begin until they have paid off all fines (see: State of Florida vs. Ray La Vel James, Fla. 2nd DCA 2020, Case No. 2D18-2552 (Opinion Filed April 15, 2020))
Florida Senate Bill 162, sponsored by Senator Perry requires registration for those with “any unreleased sanctions related to his or her conviction or who fails to complete a financial obligation imposed on him or her” from exemption or removal from sex offender registration.
RM:
Thanks for this info. We have to get it out to registrants so they can find states where they are not required to register. Michigan obviously is the most sweeping and the most logical state to recommend to registrants. The largest number will be removed in Michigan. Some are removed in other states as well. We need to get this information published so registrants can strategize to get off of the registry. The first thing they need to know is that they have options to get off of the registry.
State-by-state information may be found at the NARSOL State Wiki (select the state in the sidebar):
https://statewiki.narsol.org/doku.php
Rm
What is sick though, why should we have to move away from our families, our lives, our friends etc. to get away from these nasty, oppressive laws, rules, regulations, and ordinances?
I like living in Florida and do not want to have to go through the Michigan winters alone. Although I say I would do anything to get off the registry, there are limits for all of us.
It has been 30 years since the accusations against me. Been 18 since I got off probation. Hopefully in 2023, if nothing has changed by then, I can petition to get off the registry. Two roadblocks. First is no guarantee you will get a judge who will let you off. And secondly, where to come up with the untold thousands it will cost to hire the lawyer.
Concerned:
Also, the registry has been on hold in Michigan since February and is expected to be on hold for several more months.
You can take a break from the registry today by spending a few months in Michigan until the judge lifts his order.
Maestro:
The judge signed the order putting Michigan’s registry on hold in February. I haven’t heard of a registrant committing a new sex crime.
The situation in Michigan is quite confusing. Some police are telling registrants that they don’t have to register if their offense date preceded 2012. This isn’t rue. This won’t take effect until Does II becomes final in a few months we hope. There is at least on police department requiring people to register in direct contravention of the judge’s order. The Detroit police have long been loathe to enforce the registry and only do so to support the state police. Hundreds of people haven’t registered in Detroit in years and the police don’t care. Look on Michigan’s sex offender website at all of the registrants in Detroit who haven’t registered in 5 or 10 years. Most have warrants but as long as they continue to fly under the radar, the Detroit police don’t go looking for them.
It’s pretty bad when the police don’t even know the law or can determine who is required to register. What better proof do you want that the registry is unconstitutionally vague.
You bring up a good point and I do hope they do some type of study.
Concerned:
There are at least 3 or 4 states registrants can move to and be removed from the registry. Pennsylvania actually got a series of decisions removing several registrants. The Indiana Supreme Court in 2009 ruled in Wallace that Indiana’s registry was punitive then backpedeled a little bit. There was a good decision out of Oklahoma in Starkey perhaps 15 years ago.
Michigan just happens to the state where it was so sweeping that it is expected to remove over 1/2 the non-incarcerated registrants.
The ACLU won in the 6th Circuit which built on various state and federal court decisions in Michigan. You have to remember that Ohio, Tennessee and Kentucky are also in the 6th Circuit. The 6th Circuit decision only directly affected Michigan registrant’s but indirectly affected registrants in Tennessee, Kentucky and Ohio. The only reason the registrants in these states are on the registry is because they haven’t sued yet. Rest assured, as soon as the lawsuits hit the rest of the 6th Circuit, you are going to see a lot more registrants being removed.
There was a recent win in the 9th Circuit. This was a very narrow win but you have to remember there are over 50 million people in the 9th Circuit, so this is actually quite a victory.
And it’s not just court wins that are getting people off of the registry. It also depends on the facts of your case. For example, if you have sex with a 16 year-old in California, you will be on the registry. But move to Michigan and you’re off of the registry, because the age of consent in Michigan is 16.
Registrants have been moving to other states to get off of the registry as soon as they passed the registry acts. Registrants have even moved to another country to get off of the registry.
You just have to find which states you’re not required to register in. Michigan is the most sweeping but there may be other states where you can get off of the registry.
Virginia is another good state, depending on your offense (it’s a very bad state if the victim was 15 or younger, however). In some cases, it is possible to move to Virginia and then immediately petition the circuit court to relieve you of the requirement to register. Also, the District of Columbia is a 10 year/Life jurisdiction. If you fall under the 10 year registration requirement, which there starts from the date of release and not the end of probation like in Florida, and your 10 years have already lapsed, you will not be required to register in DC upon moving there. You should still go to the DC police and try to register, but if you are a 10 year registrant and your 10 years have expired, they will tell you you do not have to register and in fact they cannot even legally register you.
It is all about money. Even when you reach the years required to partition for removal you are not likely to afford the cost. I contacted an attorney and they want $2500.00 up front just to do a background check. That doesn’t include court cost or filing fees. You are basically screwed for life unless you can win the lotto.
That’s why donating to FAC is so much more worthwhile. They can pool our donations for our cause, which is to abolish these punitive registry laws.
$2500.00 for a background check?????
What are you doing, applying for the FBI? Good lord. Do they want a stool sample as well?
Just tired:
This litigation takes years and obviously there is no guarantee of success. The Does litigation in Michigan started in 2012 and they don’t expect to be removed until sometime in 2021. Currently, Michigan isn’t enforcing the registry but that has to do with covid, not the Does litigation.
If you are in a rush to be removed you may want to move to another state. In the meantime, your best bet is to support the litigation in the state that you are already in.
It would be interesting to see stats on how many people who are registered have committed a new sex crime while the registry is on hiatus in MI. And if there are no new sex crimes from registered persons, then it’s a damn good argument to prove the registry is unnecessary.
Is there any state that a person who is forced to register in Florida for life can moved to without being on the other state’s registry for for life?
Thanks, that cleared up some confusion I had from the original article.
Veritas.
Good news for the holidays.
Janice Bellucci chalks up a win in the California Supreme Court.
So when will it be illegal for the registry to be put on people who offense occurred in 1991 like me.when I was 18 in high school.I remember specific the state attorney told me that after my 4 years probation I’ll be free from everything I was even on my way to college in another state and now it’s 2020 I’m 47 now and on house arrest due to me not changing my address in time at dmv.And my charge is from 1991 so this ex posto facto would help me immensely so please help me with a time frame or a good attorney I’ve been waiting forever
James was decided on a statutory interpretation. I believe a fine is a punishment so should be a good ex post facto argument if this passes and they try to apply it to past offenses.
Detroit
In Missouri they have already decided in court that any payment for charges what so ever is ex-post facto. That is why when you have to make any changes in information they politely ask you if you could pay the $5 or $10 dollars to cover the paperwork. They know they can’t force you to pay it because it is an illegal charge. But then if you don’t you will be on there black list and they will make your life hell.
So if unpaid fines are actually sanctions, how can the legislature alter the rules relating to “punishment” ex post facto? Perhaps we need to see a mad rush to that DCA that made this ruling. I’m sure that there are a number of people who haven’t paid all of their fines and also, perhaps people like myself who had an obligation to pay for things like therapy for my victim. I’m sure that the state of Florida would consider an obligation like that to be part of sanctions if it came to some thing like someone wanting to register to vote. Might there be an opportunity here for some people they have a court remove them from the registry and then they can move elsewhere or they wouldn’t have to register at all like say Vermont?
Just out of curiosity, did this recent ruling site the fact that the state was insisting that unpaid fines were part of your punishment like incarceration, probation, house arrest etc.?
I am having mixed feelings about this one. I think the politicians are trying to stay ahead of the curve/wave, by enacting laws that “prepare” the way to “removal” from the registry. As we all know “removal” is nearly impossible in this state. Perhaps the lawyers that compose the state legislature, are looking at states like Michigan and saying “oh darn!”. Only time will tell.
Well hopefully a good lawyer could make a constitutional challenge now that the 8th amendment applies to the states. Timbs vs Indiana 2019
Although I do not have any fines or fees, if I did, I would gladly pay them to be removed. Having said that, they will come up with some new registration fee of say $100 per registration that most of us cannot come up with, just to keep us on the list.
It is obvious they are getting scared by some of the wins and strides we are making. This could be a good thing as it is a sign of weakness with them showing they are aware their precious registry is illegal and immoral, especially when applied after someone was already sentenced.
On the other hand, it is scary, as it shows just how far they will go to oppress us, including lying, making up false statistics, such as the re-offend rates etc. and using scare tactics with the public.
The fact that the registry requirements were passed initially with the false impression that it would make people safer is just as preposterous as paying more in added fines to a already suppressive situation makes just as much sense. So why wouldn’t they think they could get away with it.
Very surprised to see this coming out of Senator Perry. As my state senator, I saw him as an ally for criminal justice reform. Even Brandes, who has appeared to be in support of justice reform, in a recent interview had no problem looking the interviewer straight in the eye while answering all questions except when it came to the question about having to pay all fines before getting your right to vote returned to you. Then he could no longer look at the interviewer and began hesitating some as he tried to convey the importance (to him) of requiring all fees be paid before receiving your right to vote again. DeSantis is tightening his grip on the Republican regime in our state. (I am a registered Republican.)
So, Perry wants the registry to be used as punishment against those who cannot afford to pay their fines/fees.
Perry and Brandes will be hearing from me.
Thank you for this notification.
Brandes is doing very GOOD things!
Saw this coming as a result of the recent case discussed below.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tampabay.com/news/crime/2020/06/09/ruling-allows-tampa-man-to-avoid-sex-offender-registration-until-he-pays-10k-fine/%3foutputType=amp
Judges in that case say you don’t have to register if you HAVEN’T paid the fines, the proposed bill https://legiscan.com/FL/text/S0162/id/2218479 says you can’t be REMOVED until you pay the fines.
Dear LPH, I dont disagree with you. I was simply pointing out that many elected legislators will do whatever it takes to get around binding decisions from various courts that help our cause because it make them look good to their constituents. That is why I posted the link, to help keep readers informed. Thanks for participating in the discussion.
So if I am reading this right, anyone sanctioned to not only have to pay a fine, but also anyone sanctioned to probation could inevitably avoid having to register. Interesting.
Jim Crow Laws once again, taxes for them, so keep them down. Sure you want to bill for psychologist services 1,000 an hour for 4 hours per week, for one year.
Total horse hockey!
This is nothing more than just pure slavery, pure evil, and pure hate.
And “they” hate this abuse.