NOTE Given the response to this post we are including a preamble.
The ACLU is a friend. The ACLU of Florida (and national) represents the homeless registrants in Miami-Dade and the ACLU of Michigan has done great things for it’s state and those in the 6th Circuit. The point is here is not to bash the ACLU, but sometimes nudging a friend is different than pushing the opposition. That means acknowledging and respecting their help over the years while making principled criticisms.
As an organization that has been involved in the legal challenges, ACLU has first hand knowledge of how registrants have been treated, which is all the more reason they should be embarrassed over Amendment 4.
These organization are now celebrating the victory without mention of those who are now subject to further stigma.
Now that they have their victory on Amendment 4, let’s urge them to take action to ensure that a fundamental right like voting is not taken away from anyone. They have their victory on Amendment 4… now what about us?
This past Tuesday, voters in Florida passed Amendment 4. Now the Florida Constitution will be amended to restore the voting rights of former felons who have completed their sentences…
… except people convicted of murder or sex offenders.
The Florida Rights Restoration Coalition and the ACLU invested millions into getting this amendment passed and they were successful.
They were also successful in discriminating against us!
For organizations like FRRC which claims to be, “committed to ending the disenfranchisement and discrimination against people with convictions”, or the ACLU which, “works to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties” they certainly threw us under the bus quite easily!
Contact the ACLU and FRRC and let them know you don’t appreciate being discriminated against.
it seems to me this opens a lot more questions to the segregation.
Apart from loosing the right to vote, you also can’t obtain professional license from the state like a contractors license.
Especially if the Floriduh recounts go to the publicans, it’s time to move to a state where I only have to spend 10 years on the registry. Even though it’s 10 more years, it will still be quicker than living the insanity of believing Floriduh will ever give us back our freedom. The passing of Amendment 4 should be a reality check for all of us. It would be better to start over, with no support from family or friends, in a different state than to live like an animal in Floriduh. That is how we are perceived and treated. I can’t take it any more. I don’t want to die on the registry and leave a legacy of shame to my descendants.
“Happy” Veterans Day to all my fellow vets.
they didn’t call it scorched earth for nothin.
Yet no matter whwre we go the florida situation will follow us for life……
Unless we win the out of state challenge or someone else does.
@ JZ what states are there that have 10 years and no 1000 foot law? Arizona don’t even have Adam welsh Act of 2006 nor 1000 foot law but have a sex offender registry dating back to 1951. My chance is FAC wins the ex post facto lawsuit or gundy saying before 2007 is off limits. PA and Ohio maybe BUT I still watching because of Bill Cosby
JZ
Kansas and Missouri both do not have residency restrictions. Also both have 15 yr. for tier 1. Missouri just recently went to a tier system but there having a hard time figuring out how to implement it on older cases. A few yrs ago Kansas went from a 10 yr. minimum to 15yr . And you mail in your 3 mo. Notice ‘s . As they have had from the start. They mail you a form you fill it out and mail it back in.
@joseph
According to the “Summary of State and Territorial Registration Laws Concerning Visiting and Temporary Residence by Adults,” all states have a registry, but those that have possible relief in 10 years are:
Arizona
Connecticut
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Maine
Minnesota
Montana
New Hampshire
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oregon
Rhode Island
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Washington
Washington D.C.
West Virginia
and those with no residency restrictions are:
Alaska
Colorado
Connecticut
Hawaii
Indiana
Kansas
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Minnesota
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
North Dakota
Pennsylvania
Puerto Rico
Texas
Vermont
Washington D.C
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming
So the states that meet both your criteria are:
Connecticut
Hawaii
Indiana
Maine
Minnesota
Montana
New Hampshire
New Mexico
Texas
Vermont
Washington D.C
West Virginia
Thanks for this!
Tennessee, for one, you cannot petition if victim was <13. They are following the adam walsh guidelines and you are considered violent and on for life. I’m sure all the states don’t follow that rigid criteria though
LOL everyone trying to escape the registry last year alone Vermont saw a 4000% increase in its RSO population because they have some of the softest laws re-guarding them
well one because the people of Vermont are not savages like in Florida. I don’t think it’s a LOL situation though. I’m not in the mood for jokesters.
You’re welcome. Glad to help.
@JZ Thanks I live in Arizona I was told life time requirements. I got about 2 years left before i can asked for relief. I am still hoping FAC beats this ex post fact case that way I show the Court here in AZ I am only their Registry because of Draconian Florida conviction
I’m worried this is part of a one-two punch: We cant vote, so let’s take away any chance of food stamps too ! It’s not related, but it’s out there NOW. Just Google “Holding Amendment”. It’s part of the passed House version of the SNAP part of the Farm Bill, which is now in the combined Conference Committee. There is serious talk of getting it done by the lame duck Congress. I sure hope the Demos can stall it to next year or just extend the existing Farm Bill.
That is a VERY valid concern. They already bar convicted drug dealers from receiving food assistance under SNAP. It almost forces them to resort to illegal activities in order to survive. I saw it happen 2 years ago to a guy on parole here in Michigan. He got caught stealing from a woman’s purse in an apartment downstairs from his, and he went back to prison. They already ban lifetime registered sex offenders from Section 8 housing assistance, even though we are some of the neediest people in the community.
@Hank I read that article very scary….. I notice the person who wrote the bill he needs to be removed from office I don’t have any love any more for the Republican party. They want to build prisons I commit my crime 30 years ago and I am on food stamps and disabilty. The Registry took my home,friends,family,college education, employment. Will it now be food stamps? 19 year old kid got sent to prison for have of his adult life just wanna a second chance in life I been arrest free and conviction free for 8 years. Can’t petition the Court for any relief.Hopefully Gundy in SCOTUS can change the tier system
@Hank
Derek has written a good article about this on the WAR site:
https://ww1.womenagainstregistry.org/action-alert-the-fight-to-remove-the-2018-farm-bills-ban-on-registered-citizens-from-snap
We all should worry about this……..I’m so glad the crats took back the house so maybe it won’t pass……this time.
It seems to me that when a court decision goes our way, it is usually because of the work of the ACLU. They aren’t making a lot of friends by defending the rights of sex offenders, and they certainly aren’t making a lot of money from it. Litigation is expensive. They are out there handling cases on a multitude of issues. But they also see the big picture. They need to build enough victories in federal districts where they have a chance to win, and gather enough good precedent to succeed in the Supreme Court eventually. They don’t owe us anything. They are a private organization. But they work on unpopular causes that other lawyers won’t touch because it’s the right thing to do. They also have to put up with constant attacks from the far right. It takes a lot of courage to do what they do. They fight for the rights of women, of gays, of minorities, of inmates, of sex offenders, of homeless people, etc., without demanding a fat fee. We should save our disdain for the lawmakers who pile on these senseless regulations. They would have backed the Florida amendment if murderers and sex offenders had been included. However, they are not the ones who drafted the amendment. In fact, the rules probably prevent them from such political activities. Without the ACLU, who would stick up for any of the little guys.
Unfortunately: i would argue that there IS an expectation. the American CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION needs to be all encompassing. Our system promotes justice being blind. The aclu took it upon itself to defend that principle and defend from justice picking and choosing what is right for who. The aclu has defended “racists” whom we may have a moral issue with but they and their ideas are protected. This picking and chosing has severely underminded that even handed and universal approach to unbiased protections under the constitution. By alienating these groups they by default fed us to the lions. This is damaging to the original principles of what they now say they stand for. Have they sold out to the very system they supposedly were sheilding and protecting all peoples from…..
Well said.
Yet on deaf ears instead of blind justice….
Gerald
I have a question? If the ACLU is really looking after our interests too and someone contests amendment 4 on the basis of bias and the state courts decide to take it . Then the decision is made that it is biased then would that not just make the whole amendment be thrown out with everyone loosing there rights . So it would be a lose lose situation no matter what happens now. Leaving SO with no winning no matter what . So how could this amendment possibly be okay no matter what .
The good thing is 1.4 million felons will be able to vote now. I think Rick Scott will be a senator just for one term. How many ex felons are going to vote for him? I really believe he’s toast in Florida!
how’s this for a start? Don’t sit back and bitch about it….
Jason and I have passed along your concerns regarding the Sexual Offender Registry to Senator Rouson. In his efforts to restore felon rights, he has encountered other individuals like yourself. The Senator is supporting the passage of Constitutional Amendment #4 which would restore felon rights to vote. At this time, he encourages you to reach out to your area Representative to start the bill process to change the language in FL Statute 943.0435. If you can get this done on the State House of Representative’s side, the Senator will consider co-sponsoring a bill on the Senate side.
I lost all respect for ACLU they threw us to the curb like trash even acknowledged to our foes and to our fellow peers we are less then human
Can’t it be amended in the future to include everyone? or am i naive in my thinking?
You are naive to think the voters would approve a constitutional amendment specific to people required to register and people who have committed murder.
I could care less about voting, I just want off the registry. I already know that every other felon has more rights than a sex offender, even a murderer. It stings, but not that bad.
If i had to choose between being able to vote or off the registry for good, well… you just expressed that answer for me. I pick the latter all day every day. lol
Dear FAC,
Any thoughts on how Amendment 4 will actually be implemented? I’m sure there will be lots of court cases involved. Also, I ask again, Do you think there might be an avenue in the courts for someone like me who pled to an attempt at a sexual offense. – like an attempt at murder seems to be eligible for receiving voting rights. Thanks!!
It could be written to be all emcompassing noone left out noone specifically included:
For FAC because its off topic but another officer of the law got caught. so once again the people keeping us down are getting caught doing what they abuse us for having done in the past. A police sergeant arrested last week encouraged a person he thought was a 15-year-old girl to pretend she was 18, the criminal complaint against him says.
Howell Police Sgt. Richard Conte, 47, was arrested and charged Thursday with second-degree attempted luring or enticing of a child. Authorities announced the arrest the next day.
Lets see what happens to him
@no hope
https://www.facebook.com/howellpolice/posts/incident-notification-howell-officer-arrested-chief-of-police-statement-my-commu/1722639921119134/
This arrest occurred September 7, 2018. Nothing more on the incident has been released by Howell Township………..however, in the comments:
“How do you tell the good officers from the bad? By how they treat fellow officers who commit crimes.
The fact that this officer has only been suspended and is already out of jail is very telling. 7w · Edited”
“The guy had condoms in his pocket. Get real. 8w · Edited”
And on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx-GVaFXf1g
Wow The chief of police recommended suspense without pay what happen to no bail?, or jail?
they spun the advertisement in the most innocent way. The way the woman in the commercial said “felony” was the tone a teenager would use to describe something that is no big deal.
@ no hope
I’m also not naive to think new elected Governor Desatanist and his new clemency panel which includes Ashley Moody now, to give me or anyone of our kind a pass (only RSOs and murderers now have to beg to them). Not even going to waste my time and try.
I can’t read any post election news on Amendment 4 because it makes me sick.
” Strong financial support came from donors like the American Civil Liberties Union, which paid for more than $5 million in advertising on TV and social media, in both English and Spanish. ”
And then talking about that voting is a fundamental right for ” all ”
ACLU is dead to me.
It seems to me that Amendment 4 as written violates the equal protection clause of the U.S. Constitution’s 14th Amendment, which states: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.”
The gay community in our country made a successful and similar argument to SCOTUS. They now have a legal “right” under the equal protection clause to obtain a marriage license in Florida and all other states, even though the 14th Amendment does not specifically or expressly grant that right. Seems to me that we too are being denied our right to vote and the equal protection clause. I’d like for some lawyers to review this for us.
Bill
After considering all the comments as well as yours there is a lot of truth in what everyone has said. Simply on the basis of constitutionally and the fact that the law is biased from the very start and established on the false assumption of a very high reoffence rate which has been proven over and over to be false. The new law must be challenged, of coarse the ACLU will not help and it will be struck down in any state court so would have to be take to federal courts. It will cost more than FAC can raise . Is there any other place we can go to , to get assistance, maybe NARSOL.
The ACLU is a bipolar organization…or they are just selective to what issue suits them in the current moment. There is no loyalty. They can defense us and win a big case (Snyder), and then throw us under the bus, if there is a greater issue(Amendment 4)
I don’t trust them, and they lost my support and my families support as well.
Politicians insisted on the no Sex Offender no Murderer piece because none of them wanted it to be used against them in the future (see Willie Horton). I just hope the promise of a fair vehicle for registrants to regain their voting rights isn’t just smoke by legislation or the courts I don’t care how it happens as long as it happens.
Nothing will ever be done to help us. IDK why we even bother still trying. My lawyer filed a motion to end my probation last Friday and by Monday….. MONDAY! It was already sent back DENIED. How in the hell does anything in the court system work that damn fast?? So we can do all the emailing and yelling and screaming we want. It won’t amount to a hill of beans. I personally am done. I can’t live like this anymore. Full blown rebellion and revolt is hoe I’m living at this point. This awful country and it’s sham form of government can go to hell for all I care…..ESPECIALLY FLORIDA!!
Dear MJ, I’m not a lawyer but maybe the following link and discussion is provides is of some help to you and anyone in your position.
https://www.foxrothschild.com/publications/an-11th-circ-update-on-motions-to-end-supervised-release/
Start reading case law it doesn’t matter if you took a plea or trial there is a ton of relief out there. Would help to file pro se so your not waisting cash early term I have a stock motion I made and have given to my employees that works like a charm.
Does anyone know of any study groups?
The ACLU cares about money and popularity..
Sex offenders are a demonized, destitute majority that have been turned into pariahs that are political suicide to be seen as helping…..Murderers will get to vote before sex offenders do….They will also get ACLU help before ACLU does anything other then token help to sex offenders.. Think about it..ACLU spends more time and money helping non-citizen-criminal-aliens then American ,citizen sex offenders!!!
No money… No fame….No likey…..add in plague status and be insured they wont touch you with a ten foot pole any more then they must with rubber gloves..
At this point, I don’t even trust them touching any of our cases. They’ll probably sabotage our cases just so their preciously corrupted Amendment can stand justifiable.
I agree.Ive watched many of the cases the ACLU fields for registered…jailhouse attorneys could do better, and out of the 977,999 people they can choose to represent they seem to always pick the ones that couldn’t get a mercy nod from a blind nun…deliberate sabatoge to clog any future effort is what it appears since they can present such heart string cases for everyone else in and out of the country.
Couldnt say Murders and Rapist
The amendment brought to the attention of murderers and person on the register. They could have left that part out and just have it say all Felons and it would have passed. I will no longer be financially supporting the ACLU. This proved to me they are just phony lawyers.
I agree…there was no need to segregate. that was a malicious, deliberate, after thought. we want equal rights for everyone…except….you..you..or you…because we dont like you too..
Okay…so just exactly what are we supposed to say to these guys who (courtesy of Ron Book) worked this “legislative magic” with the same ignorance and prejudice that they held while we were in prison with them and the same ignorance as the general public? I’m not sure that i can address them in a civil tone at this point.
ACLU has certainly lost all my respect. They are going to have to do something spectacular to get it back. They have lost all my financial support too. I disagree that they could not have passed the bill otherwise. It just would have taken more public education on the subject.
I think your frustration is being focused against the wrong people. Without the ACLU’s good work, very little would get done to help registered sex offenders. The 2 organizations mentioned were faced with the problem of either including ALL felons in the proposal and having it shot down by the voters, or drafting one that actually had a chance to pass. I don’t think for one minute that the ACLU is done with the voting rights issue. It wasn’t a case of them throwing us under the bus. They were just doing what is possible this year. The discrimination was already there in the law. It hasn’t changed. Certainly everyone should contact the ACLU with their concerns, but criticizing them and accusing them of discrimination accomplishes nothing. We want them on our side.
Gerald – we don’t disagree. We contacted the ACLU previously and have heard nothing on this topic. We would love to hear what their plans are to include us.
I think its obvious..the ACLU used a fear and smear tactic to add weight for everyone while digging a hole for you..Those murderers and sex offenders are the bad ex-felons so Please let these “good ex-felons” vote they are “good ones”, they are not murderers and sex offenders
and we need to reintegrate them…..The worse they make you look and the more they play on the sex offender fear the more rights they get for others and the deeper they bury you..when your friends are digging your coffin dont expect help from your enemy’s..
” The 2 organizations mentioned were faced with the problem of either including ALL felons in the proposal and having it shot down by the voters, or drafting one that actually had a chance to pass. ”
So they used us as a sacrificial lamb in a desperate attempt. No matter how you slice it Gerald, it is what it is. It was a political advantage (get more liberal votes in with minorities for future elections) and they desperately took it at our expense. Again, it is what it is. I’m not saying that it was the ACLU’s idea, It was possibly those who helped fund$$$ and heavily promote it – I can bet the Books had a huge hand in there. But they got their hands dirty too. The amendment should of been written as is – felons would get their voting rights back, and that is it. Leave the details out. Most people I talked to didn’t even know sex offenders were excluded.
Imagine if Martin Luther King would of said ” some ” black folks need to be sacrificed for the greater good ?? Point is, it is all of us or nothing and the ACLU being a ” legal ” institution should of known better.
I would rather lose doing it right, then win doing it dirty.
This was a political movement by the Democrats I hope they lose every election till they get it right. They saying a habital offender can go out and carjack or rob some grandma for her welfare check go to jail then get to vote upon release I am glad I got out of that state They make discrimation in the States’ Constitution They just said you can go out and hurt sex offenders and get to vote again
@Joseph
Exactly, I agree completely and feel the same way in hoping they lose every single election for years to come until all of this is made right.
Gerald,
How long are we supposed to wait? I’ve waited 13 years already, while some thug who just got off probation for beating down a woman in a wheelchair gets to vote immediately??? Am I supposed to wait 4 or 8 more years for a chance to beg at the feet of DeSatanist?
So what role has the ACLU played in the rights restoration lawsuit against Scott? Has it been dismissed since Amendment 4 passed? Speaking of the ACLU, like many organizations, they rely on donations. Endorsing Amendment 4 has expanded their potential donor base by over one million people, so it was an easy decision for them to throw 35,000 or so registered citizens under the bus, since they obviously don’t need our financial support.
JZ, I feel your pain. I’ve been on Michigan’s registry for more than 15 years. I got all excited when Does v Snyder ruled the state could not add retroactive requirements on. Yet, we are still waiting for Michigan to obey that decision. The ACLU has filed a second lawsuit to force the state to do so, but they are still dragging their feet. I suspect lawyers at the ACLU in Florida are researching the possibility of a constitutional challenge based on equal protection under the law grounds. Plus now that Florida’s voting rights ban is narrowed to only sex offenders and murderers, it is easier to argue that discrimination is taking place. If the federal courts were ever to rule that sex offenders were a protected class because of the extreme amount of discrimination they face, it would boost our cause tremendously.
@gerald
I’ve got 25 years on the registry and like you, I’ve been waiting for Michigan to comply with the first Snyder ruling. We will hopefully get our answer in January or February. You seem to have some of the most common sense posts on this site. What do you think of our new governor and attorney general? It seems to me that this was the best possible outcome for us. Schuette was never going to let us off without a major fight but it appears that our new attorney general has worked at a law firm and personally tried getting people off the registry. It was a big point made by her conservative opponent in negative attack ads leading up to the election. It just seems to me that this is the political environment finally that is most conducive to a favorable ruling in Does II….I’m interested to hear your thoughts
Josh, Bill Shuette has been an unreasonable jerk all of his career in Michigan politics. He’s the type that would welcome the return of the death penalty in Michigan, and who wouldn’t even apologize if an innocent person were put to death. I hope with all my heart that his career in politics is over. While Governor Snyder did do a few good things, such as closing more prisons to save the state money, and forcing the parole board to start giving inmates a fairer chance at parole, I believe Shuette would have used lying fear propaganda to reverse those actions. We never know exactly how new attorneys general will act once in office, but Michigan’s voters made the best choice available. And since our new Governor’s top priority seems to be improving our roads, I’m hopeful that she will not do anything to increase the prison population needlessly again. Their reactions to the ACLU’s current lawsuit to force the state to obey the rulings in Does v Snyder will be very interesting.
Umm if you had included all felons and not mentioned or singled out RSO’s and murderer’s as the ACLU did it still would have passed as it was passed with 64% approval. So worst case it passes with 55% because of RSO’S were on it. in a day and age where people want to see everyone get a fair share being included in the amendment would have made a difference to them. This was just another excuse to exclude or degrade us. well done ACLU . and as far as your comment that they are responsible for helping the RSO’s i would ask what exactly have they helped us with? every day law makers pass more and more legislation to ban us from working/living/traveling etc..because of the registry we are hassled in life/work/ jail so maybe its just me but i have not seen a case where the ACLU has stepped up and done something to make our world better. We should have been on that amendment, period end of story
Sorry, but it had to have 60% to pass. That’s why Amendment 1 failed, it had only 58%. That surprised me since the illiterate electorate voted over 60% on all the other ones.
“No hope” I think you are underestimating what kind of nasty fear mongering would have hit the airwaves if sex offenders had not been excluded from the amendment. The public has been so scared by the phony propaganda against sex offenders that I believe it would have doomed the proposal. All you would have seen on TV is that it was an amendment to allow dangerous predators to vote. That’s how those haters operate. Hate propaganda seems to work well nowadays, unfortunately.
Actually, i live and understand the fear mongering as you put it, but the average voter out there would have been unaware(as they are on many issues) that ex felons of any kind would have been different if we just said lets give rights back to all people that did their time. It is the fact that the ACLU singled out us and murderers that made it a big deal. There is an old saying that there is no problem until you make it a problem. Truth be told my case was unusual the judge did not take away my rights even though i am forced to register i can still vote and so on but i would have liked to to have see an win for any RSO. Just once especially here in Florida
does it really matter? at least with this amendment we have the same rights as murderers. That, to me, is a victory. YESSS!!!!
When Injustice becomes law, resistance is duty!!!
It would be nice to know their intentions for SO’s. I agree with Gerald’s assessment though about lowering the possibility of amendment passing if it included sex offenders. It still a win though, now that people voted for felons maybe now they can make a new fight for SO’s without lowering the odds of felons.
Im off the registry and still can’t vote but I’m happy other felons can vote. Hopefully now that they are voting we have a better chance.
As far as the pecking order goes, what would make you think RSO’s would be prioritized over felons without any conditions?
Perhaps because of the extremely LOW rate of reoffense for both RSO’s and murderers. It’s discrimination plain and simple and to think that its’s anything else is ludicrous.
I don’t know the history of the Florida chapter of the ACLU, but here in Texas they won’t even respond to any type of discussion pertaining lending help to Texas registrants. I can’t think of a single class of individuals more discriminated upon and despised from those all across the cultural quilt of America than those of us on the registry.
Until they, ACLU, at least respond and offer an explanation as to why they will not help us, I WILL NOT lend a single penny to helping them, at least not here in Texas. It does seem that they are helping in various parts of the country but seem very selective in the process.
“You can protect your liberties in this world only by protecting the other man’s freedom. You can be free only if I am free.” – Clarence Darrow People V Lloyd 1920
Yup, Clarence Darrow knew all too well… and with that ends these silly arguments in defense of the ACLU. They should be a shame of themselves being a legal organization and should of known better as John mentions above.
Amen brother! A LA our forefathers 1776!