Last week, Florida’s 2nd District Court of Appeals, remanded a lower court’s dismissal of a sting case back to the trial court. While the outcome (a dismissed ICAC sting case was reopened) wasn’t great, we’re getting a bit more attention to these stings and the rules of the game. Courts are beginning to notice what’s been going on and hopefully these cases will be viewed with more scrutiny than before.
Let’s begin with the game itself… Law enforcement officers create a fake profile on an adult dating app or chat app. The profile is usually a picture of an attractive woman with a description of being 19-21. They troll the waters waiting for unsuspecting dupes to take the bait and once they have the target on the hook with some sexually suggestive conversation, they suddenly become 14!
I know what you are thinking… Come on! Don’t they warn every male under 25 about this? Who is still so gullible?!?! Well I guess if there are still tens of thousands of people out there waiting for an eight million dollar inheritance from a relative they never heard of that’s supposed to be wired right after they make just one more payment to Barrister Stevens John from Nigeria… there are still some people out there who didn’t get the memo.
Regardless, In State of Florida v. Lopez Garcia (Case No. 2D21-1492) the Court gave us the rules… Section 777.201(1), Florida Statutes (2020), provides: A law enforcement officer, a person engaged in cooperation with a law enforcement officer, or a person acting as an agent of a law enforcement officer perpetrates an entrapment if, for the purpose of obtaining evidence of the commission of a crime, he or she induces or encourages and, as a direct result, causes another person to engage in conduct constituting such crime by employing methods of persuasion or inducement which create a substantial risk that such crime will be committed by a person other than one who is ready to commit it.
“The first question to be determined is whether law enforcement induced the defendant to commit the charged offense. If the answer is yes, then the second question is whether the defendant was predisposed to commit the charged offense.” In other words… (1) did the cop induce the defendant (Inducement is defined as including ‘persuasion, fraudulent representations, threats, coercive tactics, harassment, promises of reward, or pleas based on need, sympathy[,] or friendship.’, and (2) if so, was the defendant predispositioned to commit the crime (Predisposition focuses upon whether the defendant was an ‘unwary innocent’ or, instead, an ‘unwary criminal’ who readily availed himself of the opportunity to perpetrate the crime.)
The Appellate Court held that someone’s predisposition to commit a crime is not a matter of law but a matter to be decided by a Jury, so they sent it back to the trial court.
The problem with many of these cases is that so few people take these cases to trial. The fear of spending decades in prison if you lose is enough to persuade anybody to take a quick plea to get out of the room. Nobody can blame them for not wanting to roll the dice. But, if you showed up in an adult chat room, looking to meet an adult, never had any underage pornography, never have been investigated for soliciting minors and were just an ‘unwary innocent’ who gave into an officer’s persuasive tactics… it’s something to speak to your attorney about.
I’ve personally known 5 people to have gone to trial in these entrapment unconstitutional cases here in FL. 4 were in North Fl 1st district and one in southwest FL 2nd District. All lost. Once you read the charges to the jury it’s no longer a trial, it’s an execution.
Meanwhile in Tallahassee….
2022 – 2023 INTERIM COMMITTEE MEETING SCHEDULE
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Calendar/2023/Interim%20Meeting%20Schedule%202022-11-15%20172415.PDF
Less than three weeks away
Here is something that was said by one of these prosecutors who is currently prosecuting these cases from another one of these fake child predator sting operation. This is not in Florida, but as you can see it’s the same mentality or justification everybody behind this scam has been trained to use. Of course, they don’t say this publicly. They only say it when they are cornered with the question, “Why are you looking for child predators on adult dating/hookup sites and sex forums where no one would expect to find kids?”
Here is this man’s brilliant response (extreme sarcasm) And I did inform him I was going to quote him on this.
“There is no indication the people contacted/arrested would not have committed the crimes alleged. Each knew the age. Each knew the intent and they were free to turn back at any time, but did not do so. To your question as to why these sites were used…because there are people on there looking to have sex with underage children. I certainly hope operations like these would not find someone looking to have sexual contact with minor children because that would be a sign that such people are not in our community, but, as the arrests reflect, that is not the case.”
Yes, I have this written response he sent to me.
” I certainly hope operations like these would not find someone looking to have sexual contact with minor children because that would be a sign that such people are not in our community, but, as the arrests reflect, that is not the case.”
This is some Elizabeth Holmes-esque circular logic and mental gymnastics! Thankfully, his word salad doesn’t make his argument any more credulous. It’s like floating the assumption that sewers “might” contain rats – and if they do – we’re gonna take full credit for finding them!
Funny how they’re never admit what the real value these “stings” have as just another delivery system to keep the registry bloated.
Make them define predisposition and then why the person was predisposed to committing the crime. Chances are then you will get people who will understand the reality of why the actions were taken.
From Oxford languages:
pre·dis·po·si·tion /ˌprēdispəˈziSH(ə)n/ noun
noun: predisposition; plural noun: predispositions
a liability or tendency to suffer from a particular condition, hold a particular attitude, or act in a particular way.
“a child may inherit a predisposition to schizophrenia”
Similar:
susceptibility
proneness
tendency
liability
inclination
disposition
vulnerability
weakness
miasm
preference
predilection
leaning
propensity
bent
proclivity
penchant
liking
bias
prejudice
velleity
In JACOBSON v. UNITED STATES, 503 U.S. 540, the court held that the government must prove not only that a suspect was predisposed to commit the crime before the opportunity to commit it arose, but also before the Government came on the scene.
LE has the predisposition to entrap someone because they believe they are keeping the public safe when in fact they are taken advantage of those they are entrapping and their predispositions, e.g. a drug habit.
It seems to me if a “girl” on a dating app puts up a profile that says she’s 19, then messages you and initiates sexual talk and you talk sexually back, then “she” confesses that “she” is only 15 and you end the contact, there is no crime. Its only if you continue to talk sexually to “her”.
But I do question whether or not talking sexually to someone posing as a minor is really a crime. It seems that there should be some kind of intent to act upon it.
Its like role playing. My girlfriend is 22 years younger than me (I’m 56). I won’t go into details but we do “play” because it keeps our relationship strong. Nothing involving role playing a minor, but what we do is our business alone.
Bottom line is these stings are wrong and I feel they are entrapment anyway. Cops have no business going online posing as minors simply to make an arrest. They need to focus on the real crimes like school shootings, drug trafficking, or go research some cold case murders or missing people.
Some people will commit a crime if they think they can get away with it. How many of you if you came upon an armored car that had the safe wide open with no one in it and no one around would be tempted to grab a few bags of cash knowing you would never get caught? Probably a lot of you. Now how many of you would go on an online dating site specifically looking for an underage girl to have sex with? Hopefully none of you. You get what I mean? These guys getting caught up in these stings most likely did not go onto those sites looking for a minor. Most probably just engages in some inappropriate talk with the decoy then continued when “she” confessed her real age. Lack of good judgement obviously, but the opportunity to commit the crime was created by the police which I think is wrong. These websites have specific rules that state you must be 18. So if a cop creates a fake profile then states the “real” age of the decoy is only 15, the cop should be charged.
I know if I was running an adult dating website, I would be very proactive about it and monitor the chats. Anyone who claimed to be a minor would be immediately IP banned. There would also be photo verifications. A long time ago I was on a dating site and the moderators would make you submit a face photo with you holding a piece of paper with a captcha that was emailed to you, along with your ID It was there way of verifying your identity. These websites need to start doing that.
No one goes to an adult dating or hookup site or any sex forum looking for kids to do this with. Those looking for kids will go to where kids are expected to be. That’s common sense!
Those who are running this scam are claiming that predators are using these adult content platforms to find kids to do this with. YES, you heard that right! Their claim is that there are kids using these adult content platforms to find men to engage in sexual conversations and invite to meet for sex, and these “child predators” (as they call them) supposedly go to these adult content places to find these kids who are supposedly looking for adult men to have sex with. Somehow these “child predators” know how to find these kids in these adult places, even though law enforcement has been unable to find any of these kids themselves, to rescue them from this or at least remove them and let their parents know that their kids are doing this. Inform the public about this problem, if you really believe this is happening. Etc. Notice they haven’t done none of that? They won’t even make this ridiculous claim publicly. (That they believe “child predators” are using adult dating and hookup sites and other adult sex forums to find kids to do this with) They will only make this ridiculous claim when they are cornered with the hard questions about this, and that still hasn’t happened publicly.
What they’ve done is lie and cover up a lot of very important facts about this to keep the public fooled into believing that this is the same thing as predators who target kids on the regular social media platforms that kids use, like Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, video gaming platforms, etc. Those are exactly the places where real kids have been lured from by real predators, NOT from adult dating and hookup sites or other sex forums. Anybody can do a simple google search about cases where kids have been lured online. Good luck finding any of those where kids were lured by predators on an adult dating or hookup site. What you will find is that some minors have posed as an adult on an adult dating site for LGBTQ because there is no where for minors from that group to go and meet others like them. And there are other minors who have used adult dating sites, but all of them will say they were looking for friends, not someone to have sex with. They certainly do not push sex on random adult male strangers they meet in those places, like the decoys do in all of these fake child predator sting operations. That’s just not the behavior of real minors. So, of course anybody that comes across something like this is going to be extremely confused about it. That’s a very normal response. Can’t blame them for playing along. That’s a normal response too because of the circumstances. It’s not the same as someone on Facebook telling you that they are 13. It’s not even close to being the same thing!
It makes absolutely no sense that all of these “child predator” sting operations target men on those adult content platforms, where the decoys will first pose as an adult who seeking adult men for sexual purposes. Then only claim to be a minor AFTER they have used sex to lure men to contact them. Then they continue to push sex on the men. Many times even demanding it. I’ve read plenty of these chats, and what the decoys do is incredibly disturbing.
Once you know and understand the full facts of what they are really doing, it is really disturbing to see how men in law enforcement and in vigilante groups are sexualizing kids and forcing this on other men to make those other men also see and think about kids in this way. It is very clear from their behavior that these men have spent a lot of time fantasizing about kids being so desperate for sex that they would go around pushing sex on grown men and even complete random strangers. What I find even more disturbing about what they do is that they will even pretend to be a kid as young as 13 or 12 who is bragging about being a virgin and is desperate for sex. Think about that, a 12 or 13 year old virgin kid who is apparently desperate for sex, so they go online to adult sex forums to find adult men for this. As a woman, a mother, and someone who works with kids, it is incredibly disturbing to see law enforcement and vigilante groups sexualizing kids like this and calling this the work of trying to save and protect children from online predators. What they are doing has absolutely nothing with trying to do any of that because they create it all themselves by guiding and controlling these conversations, to make sure they are talking about sex. The men are not given the option to NOT make the conversation about sex. That should be a HUGE problem for these cases, but no one is talking about that. These sick, twisted fake heroes are forcing this idea on random men for their own sick thrills, and no one wants to talk about that.
Another huge problem is that law enforcement can alter the conversations they turn in as evidence, and many defense attorneys will ignore or help cover up that fact too. If it’s brought up to them, they’ll claim they just can’t do anything about it. They’ll say they can’t get the evidence to show LE did that. We all know they can. That’s just very consistent with helping cover up important facts to make these convictions happen, because of course more convictions means more money for them. That’s what it’s all about. It’s not about truth or what’s real or not. They very purposely keep the focus off the truth and say they need to just focus on the PROCESS. The process is just about checking off boxes. They’ll lie and keep important facts hidden in order to be able to check off all the boxes and get these convictions they desperately want and need for more money.
I have so much more!
This is true some of your arrest sheets is typed on bottom we target the suspect. You are right it needs to be consider unconstitutional to many people are on register for that reason
Linda
I believe one of the reasons the Supreme court should rule the registry unconstitutional is, it is not applied equally. Yes, I think, like many others, there should not be any registry. However, to be applied to every single felon with any felony charge.
Once applied equally and “Fairly” (no such thing where the registry is concerned) millions of people would be registered, and at that point, we would have the strength to take it down. If there were millions on the registry, everyone could afford 1 dollar to add to the lawsuit. That would equate to millions of dollars and a new lawsuit could be filed daily, flooding the courts until they either open the theater curtains covering their eyes, or resign under pressure due to not respecting the constitution.
We have been presented time and again how unfair and lopsided the registry is. For example, the few other registries there are, are mostly private and only for law enforcement use. I heard there is a murder registry, but as hard as I have tried to access it, I have not been able to.
Many of us have been on the registry for over 3 decades and every one of those years have seen more and more restrictions placed on us. As the courts keep calling these non-punitive in nature, it allows for the envelope to be pushed more and more to the point we will have to check in once a week like on probation at some point. Heck I already have more stress now than I did on probation. Back then you only went in if you had to correct, change or add information.
They specifically target men on adult dating and hookup sites and other sex forums because they know it’s very easy to use the men in those places to create these fake child predator cases. Role playing is very common in those places. Adults use those places for fantasy sexual conversations, and those running this fake child predator sting operations scam know this very well. It’s very easy to confuse men in these places to get them to play along in order to use them to create another one of these fake cases that they’ve made so much money off of.
None of what they have done has anything to do with trying to save or protect children from online predators, as they have shamelessly been lying about. Shame on anyone who continues to support and defend this scam and enable those who are still doing this.
Not 100% the case. In my situation, I could have won, just the lawyer ran me out of money is the reason I did not go to trial. I had a solid case. Once the money ran out, I was never told I could have a public defender. My lawyer and the judge agreed I either went to trial or take a plea of guilty.
Once locked up, I sent a letter to the judge explaining that and stating I wanted to come back for trial and I was denied and told too much time had passed to appeal.
Since the courts have help up the Constitutionality of these operations, we can expect to see these continue in perpetuity. No one dares try to put the brakes on them for fear of falling under the bus of the McCarthyism bandwagon that society has so blindly jumped on in the past few decades.
My case was the same.. the judge denied my motion to dismissed but the attorney I had at the time did not appeal the dismissal. I went to trial and lost of course but I got another judge at trial that saw through the game that it is and sentenced me to 42 month prison time instead of the 17 years the state was asking. This stings should be find unconstitutional because the police are posing as Adults on Adults ONLY sites. Just that fact should be enough to show entrapment. In my case I even told the person that I thought it was an adult, to get of the website and be careful.. I even advise the person to be off the internet and they kept on insisting on talking to me. but at the end nobody cares.. they ruined my life and my family live for what??
“They troll the waters waiting for unsuspecting dupes to take the bait”
Thing is, you don’t even have to be actively looking for a “match.” How they “set the hook” is by contacting you first with a PM (private message) or requesting that you “add” them for a chat. They use a normal looking female photo with a fake profile that is private. Then they employ deceptive and aggressive texting to lower inhibition and then it only gets more desperate on their end to “seal the deal.”
If it sound too good to be true, it’s a trap!
I’ve found that most of these cases that do go to full trial (though very few and far between) result in not guilty. But those cases also take years to get to full trial, all the while plea deals keep coming and the defense lawyer (public defenders especially) recommending to take it.
Pretty sure the state (or government, in federal cases) stall everything on purpose for the sole purpose of getting the defendant to plead out, knowing their chances of a jury conviction are less than ideal due to the entrapment defense that is always prevalent in these cases
Grateful for the increasing volume of FAC original content from FAC’s journalist-volunteers. Thank you!
Wishing the defendant the best of success in demonstrating to the jury, his lack of disposition.
I second this! FAC has been amazing at providing content for us…and fighting for us! There are days I want to give up but FAC gives me hope.
Don’t give up. We have something pretty exciting planned!
Oh…? Cliff hangers!