A great decision out of the United States District Court for the Southern District of Indiana was issued earlier this week.
Previously, people residing in Indiana who committed (and completed all sanctions relating to) offenses prior to the enactment of the Indiana Sex Offender Registry do not have to register. However, people outside Indiana who committed (and completed all sanctions relating to) offenses prior to the enactment of the Indiana Sex Offender Registry who later move to Indiana DO have to register. The same goes for someone who was living in Indiana, moved outside the state and then returned.
Federal Court Judge Richard L, Young found this result illogical. In his 37 page opinion he writes, “The state has offered no evidence that out-of-state sex offenders or those that leave and return are inherently more dangerous than resident sex offenders, and the court can think of none.”
But what is really great about this decision is that it is ANOTHER federal district court that has found the registry is PUNISHMENT!
You can read the decision below:
has anyone challenged the same law in KY?? if you were convicted in another state and move to KY .. automatic lifetime in registry.. just wondering
So what’s the cut off date in Indiana. When did it start for them? Say if I moved there? Would I have to register. I got off probation in 1998.
2006
In 2009 the indiana state supreme court ruled the registry as punitive and could not be applied retroactively. This is what set this other case into motion. Indiana is unique because of this earlier ruling.
Other than Florida’s i don’t think their or any other state’s registration laws toll the date from release of sanctions, the toll from the date of the offense.
Hey There the cut off doesn’t matter right now I’m still fighting the case but if you got your case before July of 94 you are good.
i supect that they will lose on appeal because of how the law is applied to people convicted in Indiana who are returning to the state. Some of he other parts of the decision have the possibility of being overturned IMO. I hope it turns out well because prior to finding out how they applied differing standards Indina was on my short list of possible destinations. On its facd, the India law looked like it provided an opportunity for removal after 10 year. On my list, it had a question mark beside it, so that means it wasn’t clear. IN the case of staes like Maine, Rhoide island and Connecticut, it was clear that a different standard applied to out of staters. What may be the most important thing to come out of a case like this is the possibility of the common “whichever is worse” laws being struck down. Those are the ones where the requirements for registration for out of staters are based on local law or law in the state of conviction, whichever one is more restrictive.
We won the appeal, but lost in en banc, but we had three points so we lost on the ex post facto part but they sent our equal protection argument back to the district court and we won that on may 31st of this year
Please share the link to the decision.
Let’s not forget that this only applies as ex post facto to those convicted prior to SORNA.
What I would like some judge to explain is how the same regimes are “regulatory” to those convicted afterward. Same restrictions, same requirements, and all the stigma that goes with it. The judge even cited how recidivism rates are among the lowest and that nearly all registrant convictions are for status (parole, probation, or registry) offenses as opposed to new crime of any kind.
Stevens was spot on in his dissent in Smith – “No matter how often the Court may repeat and manipulate multifactor tests . . . it will never persuade me that the registration and reporting obligations that are imposed on convicted sex offenders and on no one else as a result of their convictions are not part of their punishment.” (Also quoted in this opinion)
A legislature shouldn’t be allowed to bypass its constitutional restrictions (state or federal) with additional registry laws merely by claiming intent to be a civil, regulatory one. If it’s punitive for one, then it’s punitive for all. It shouldn’t continue once sentences are served, regardless of conviction date.
This made me chuckle from page 34 on the excessive applications of SORA by the state.
” the state cannot
use a sledgehammer to swat a bee. ”
Back in my younger years, I used a similar analogy when referring to cousins of mine who were a bit extremist in their methods of doing things. I’d tell them: “You don’t need a shotgun to a kill a cockroach ”
This 37 page opinion pulled back no punches. He pretty much covered everything we have been saying on these boards or blogs for years. Citing Snyder¸ 834 F.3d at 705, more often in the latter part of the opinion as well. Once again, labeling people as dangerous with no individualized risk assessment, hindering the right to travel, ex post facto, equal protection, pretty much everything. He also acknowledges that SORA today is far beyond what was originally intended with Smith(2003). This opinion is how I want SCOTUS one day to deliver an opinion with SORA. in a clear or distinct manner and just straight to the point — Enough with the B.S.
So let me get this right and please if I am wrong someone please tell me, so Indiana is saying as long as you were living there before the registry went into affect and you did all that was required you to do you will be removed but if you moved out of state then came back you will have to register???
Well I am lost this is really getting a bit ridiculous on how this government can do to you , maybe a NWO ( new world order) needs to happen or a civil war cause correct me if this is not alike slaverly cause I sure feel like this registry is like , heck they separated the slaves from the rest of the world are they not doing the same to people who have been convicted of a sex crime, not allowed to go to a park , or school or have a child live with you , sure does feel like We are living like a slave if you ask me except we do not have a region to go to for help. It like the whole world is not accepting us.
Judge agreed that it was ridiculous
I just got the appeal decision a few minutes ago. The judges decided in our favor 2-1 I would like to upload it if possible
If you send it to [email protected] it will be shared.
Brian
That is awesome. Hope it helps many there. Our turn in Florida seems to be within reach at times, then at other times, light years away. We all have legal indigestion.
so here’s the deal; Indiana’s attorney general, who left office to pursue other things, got it into his head that Indiana would become a haven for sex offenders and put it’s residents at risk, because the rates of recidivism are “frightening and high” as we all know lol. so that thinking has carried over to the newly elected attorney general. back in 2014 I challenged the state to give me relief but they said since I moved to Texas I had to now register for life. so yes you are correct if I had never left Indiana I would never have been in this predicament. so the aclu took my case and I have been fighting this for 4 years now soon to be 5, because they appealed it, and it’s going to the 7th circuit in Chicago so sometime next year we should a decision. keep your fingers crossed please.
Always was intended as plain indenture (13th).
Human to database. Free men are paid to maintain machines. That no federal case has been made on that fact alone reflects a peculiar ” intentional ignorance” or infatuation with the power of the database infrastructure and potential uses that guarantee political security for those unworthy leaders of a republic of free humans.
Unquestionably the notion renders RE: machina.
A state in which humans are ALL subjects of a machine database and it’s ” necessary maintenance. ”
For purposes anti-l free will.
I am hoping FAC using some of these persuade case the Federal judge mention. I read it and it seems to me the Judge is making a argument for the sex offenders . Good Decision Judge
Let us hope the state of IN does not appeal and this will be a other case we can use in support. Other than being on the registry for a offenses before we had one here in FL what is more bafflingis how it is ruled ex post facto punishment in other states. The US Constitution governs us all. It seems like things are getting better everywhere but Florida. Hats off to FAC and the legal team for fighting for us.
They are appealing
Sounds like if offenders in that state win, we all need to move there to get off the registry LOL Heck if that is what it took to get off decades of registry I would move to the moon.
Does the “and completed all sanctions relating to” part mean that those of us from FL would have to be kept on the IN registry because FL’s registry is “for life” and, therefore, we would not have completed THAT sanction until death, or does it truly mean all sanctions such as incarceration, probation, etc. but NOT the for-life registration?
No – it applies to the sentence. The registry is not considered a “punishment”
NOT PUNISHMENT? NOT PUNISHMENT!! – I have a cousin that I’ve personally seen falsely convicted in Indiana. He had 2 trials and the first one was a hung jury. Then the prosecutor polled the jurors in the first and put motions in limine for the second trial. Plus, evidence brought up in the first trial, his lawyer purposely did not introduce or question in the second trial. Then they had 2 prosecutors to his 1 lawyer. We saw him set up without evidence, nothing (with the aid of his lawyer). Now he has to register as an innocent man. YES, people on the registry are punished. Don’t believe me ask the employers that won’t hire them. After serving his time my cousin tried tirelessly to get employed. He was recently accepted to trucking school through C.R. England (10 years after the conviction), he took his CDL permit test and passed it. He disclosed his entire background to them and paid for his permit only to be denied the day he was to report to school because of the type of crime. The depression he has gone through in trying to make a decent wage. The divorce he is going through because his wife thinks she’s the “man” of the house because she brings in all the money now. With his education, he could be making over $200k easy. He got a degree in business, welding certificate, and yet employers are telling him once he wins the appeal to come see them and they will be happy to offer him a job.
You all with sex offenses are slaves! This is supposed to be a Christian country and the Bible clearly states that God forgives those who forgive. The registry alone is keeping track of your wrongs after you have already paid the price. The registry is our Country’s evidence of unforgiveness and therefore I believe we are suffering due to this and God is not forgiving US. Many US born citizens are losing jobs. My cousin said he saw so many Arab and Indian truck drivers. They send their American money to their countries and many American’s can’t get jobs due to the registry to keep money in America. I get it that people got to pay for their crimes but the registry is punishment beyond serving time. Think about it, even while in prison someone can get your name and then get information about your conviction while you are already incarcerated. Then inmates knowing this can make you a target for rape and possible death. My cousin said he saw it first-hand. Then you got the news over hyping the registry around Halloween. As if people never convicted of a crime are so innocent. Criminals didn’t have a criminal record at some point. So what do we do look for the specific type of DNA linked to sex offenses and just send those people on a deserted island or abort them?
Here is the problem. YOU! You all are the problem. Whether innocent or guilty, on the registry, free, or a lawyer reading this you’re all are the problem. Because you will not stand up like this judge did. Many are ashamed to bring stuff like this to public. You won’t share the issues on social networks. We’re personally looking to start a magazine or something because this is a problem that we need address before it’s too late. Your rights are being violated and politicians are running and using sex offenders as a way to win elections even though their little deeds are covered by their associations and affiliations. Another issue is that you’re not together. There is only strength in numbers when those numbers are working together towards a common goal. You guys are being kicked out of your homes, can’t pick your kids up from school, have to watch their games from a phone and can’t get a job good enough to pay for your therapy sessions so you get violated and sentenced back to prison. But the registry isn’t punishment. Let’s create a registry for everything we all have done that we don’t want the public to know and see if the embarrassment from our sins don’t hurt us because public disclosure of private matters isn’t punishment. And I’m saying this after spending time in two trials for a man that I know is innocent and suffering because of it. Now copy and share this if you agree and start coming together as one against the registry, knowing that if this type of punishment was inflicted on you, you would want a change.
Thank you for this!
No. Thank you all for not being afraid to advocate for people with sex offenses and creating a platform to address this non-empathetic country we’re living in. Our family has been deeply affected by this and my cousin’s household has been torn apart. There is no way the punishment they give out to these people they could endure themselves. In Indiana if you’re homeless you have to check in (in-person) with the county sheriff every 7 days. What? These people are homeless! Now they have to worry about getting a ride back to the county sheriff or risk prosecution again? They might as well just live at the county. Lifetime registration means you have to follow strict rules that the rest of the world doesn’t. Like keep your driver’s license up to date with your address, not live within so many miles of parks, schools, etc. being babysat and tracked by local authorities. My cousin is looking for an appeal but lawyers are saying he would have to get post-conviction relief because he has already done his time. This is crap. Our family argues that if you are currently and continuously being punished by the registry then it’s like you are in prison and that should constitute for a full appeal as if you were incarcerated due to being consistently under governmental watch. So when congress says this isn’t punishment I wonder whom have they polled. Did they poll the people and families most affected by these rules? I think not. That’s like polling Mike Tyson to ask him if his punches hurt. You have to ask the people who got hit by him. The world is advocating for no bullying but my cousin and others ARE being bullied by these anti-constitutional laws through the registry.
We found this forum after searching because I took him to be registered for his yearly in Marion County. He asked about moving from Indiana to Florida. The clerk at the desk was so helpful in informing him that some states make any sex offense a lifetime registration. Also that a state can only upgrade your registration not downgrade it. She gave him an example of someone who actually moved from Indiana to Florida and he was a 10-year register in Indiana but became a lifetime register in Florida. Then when he moved back to Indiana he couldn’t go back to the 10-year registration because Indiana couldn’t downgrade Florida’s lifetime registration so now he was stuck having to register for life. HORRIBLE! My question is why can the punishment of registering be upgraded but not downgraded? Some of this stuff should have been clearly stated about moving to different states. We’re happy she explained it to him but that doesn’t make it right. The house always wins and thank God we’re in a country that we can fight to change the house. Everyone just needs to be in unity. Make a petition, spread the word, do something.
Just like this forum, sex offenders need one. One place to unite, one face to represent them all, one lawyer or law firm to fight each unlawful restriction against them in a class-action suit (not just these individual cases). There’s power in numbers with unity.
Jesus spoke to those who came to prisons not the people who sat at home condemning prisoners saying I won’t come visit those sinners. Thank you guys for being a strong advocate you WILL be blessed!
The notion that we need an org to fight these all the time everywhere is spot on. EVERYONE agrees, I think. The only reason we don’t already is lack of resources— donor funds + volunteer time. So we, and other NARSOL state affiliates, pick our battles with what we’ve got.
Can this case be sited in your Expo Facto case for us here in Florida ?
We can do a Notice of Supplementary Authority, but our Amended Complaint has been filed and these issues are different than ours.
FAC,
Yes they are. Dangerousness was not the key issue Smith V, as the court relies here. It also applied to those found not guilty by mental defect, reflecting civil intent. Judge’s best base here lies in substantive equal protection. Why, because returning individuals AND migrating registrants each enter a new state’s database. This triggers anew ” public interest ” issues in every case.
The Congress in 94 may have opted for one(1) distinct database ( just for deviants) but instead built 50 databases. Excellent choice for hard drive and software makers (big data) right? Great for big labor too? Right. Oh and quite so ” benevolent. ”
The true enemy of the sex offender is the database and GOV USE there of. The sex offender was the first group sold out to big data, and indentured scapegoat. The rest of America came shortly after as today private personal information is rare indeed. Electronic medical records are a great idea IF you’re an insurance agent.
What leadership in its right mind advertises the worst of it’s flock to the rest of the world as standard procedure. Who does that? Not those acting in good faith, proof in the pudding.
Did the State actually appeal?
I can’t find an appeal on Pacer.
yes they most certainly did despite the fact the judge said we would most likely win our case.
Did the State of Indiana actually appeal the decision?
This was a trial court decision, not an appeal.
In your July 13th post you said (They are appealing)
Who is appealing?
The state of Indiana is appealing
This is a court that gets it.
Imagine if our own circuit applies straightforward reasoning like this (pp. 25-35) in response to FAC’s ex post facto challenge.
It is still beyond me as to how something can be ‘punishment’ in one district and not in another. The Constitution restricts states from passing laws that conflict with the US Constitution. The problem is that most lawmakers and citizens do not have a clue as to what is in the Constitution and that is how the lawmakers want it to be. If your rights are violated and you don’t know about it, then they can get away with “murder”. And they have to treasury of the US to back up their ‘legal’ position, leaving the average citizen to choose between ‘fighting’ or poverty.
Believe me they know what the constitution reads that’s why they manipulate the writing of the new laws and cautious what they say.
Capt, the bowl of legal spaghetti regarding punishment comes from a lack of specificity. The definition of punishment is a matter of opinion and not of law. A certain pressure on the thumb screws is not punishment, but perhaps a bit more is. The judge in this case provided a lot of ammunition for future punishment arguments. The decision also allows contrary claims that a specific state’s provisions don’t rise to that level of punishment. However, this case and others, e.g. Millard v Rankin, are indeed hopeful signs.
Concur!
Any word on Millard also isn’t McGuire V Strange out there as well?
My case exactly: fed out of state no registry came to florida all of a sudden after 22 years life ruined