FAC NOTE: The following was an article comment, posted by CherokeeJack, which was better suited as a post.
So Not sure where to post this but a lot of people including me had questions and now I have the answers from the lawyer posted on FAC site, Ron Kleiner. After speaking with him, he gave me permission to discuss the basics.
First I wanted to know what the cost was and I was dead on with my estimate, in fact I hit it right on the head. $10,000 (For his law firm anyway) to go before a judge on the 20 years off probation request to be removed from the registry.
He also stated what I already knew, there is no guarantee, and it also depends on the judge you get. He also stated the state is appealing that 20 year defense and trying to get that loop hole closed. He said by time I am eligible, it may or may not be done away with. (Again, even if the 20 year exception stands, there is no guarantee of relief)
I still have about 6 months before I can file and that was another question I asked, how far in advance do you file, he stated about 6 weeks before you are eligible based on the court dockets.
I forgot to ask if you get denied, if you can appeal that ruling, but I would assume that would cost even more than the initial payment.
I also asked since he was in South Florida, is that where I would go to court and he said no, He comes to the county in which you were sentenced for the hearing. I was assuming I was seeing the same judge that was letting people off after 20 years, but it can be different judges depending on where you were charged originally.
Additionally, if the 20 year rule stands, that would make things less stressful (Other than the cost).
FAC NOTE: The following was added by Ron Kleiner on 3/12/2023.
For all those who are considering petitioning to be removed from the Florida Sex Offender Registry, let me clear up a few misconceptions from the few comments that have been brought to my attention.
- I have been successful in about 12-15 cases in having people removed from the Florida Registry. All of the cases that we have prevailed in are based on the pre 2007 version of Fla. Stat 943.0435, which has the 20 year registration under state law, and compliance with Jacob Wetterling under Federal law, and not Adam Walsh act conditions. Jacob Wetterling has a mandatory 10 year registration period, with no disqualifying offenses. AWA conditions merged into the 2007 amendment which brought the minimum petitioning period to 25 years, but also brought with it AWA compliance, which for those of you with offenses that fall into tier 3 under SORNA, or in the enumerated conviction list in the post 2007 version of 943.0435, mean that you are not eligible to petition for life. That is the reason that our arguments are focused on the pre 2007 version of the statute.
I am very clear with every person with whom I speak, that arrests for any felony or misdemeanor are disqualifying. There are individuals who have asked me to take their case in front of the court, notwithstanding an arrest of this nature.
We recently prevailed in a very good opinion in Miami Dade county. and the state has chosen to appeal the ruling. We are hopeful to prevail again in the appellate court, and hope for the court to write an opinion on which version of the statute should be applicable to petitions under 943.0435.
I encourage anyone who is off sanction for 20 years and arrest-free to consider a petition in case the appellate court rules in the state’s favor and reverses with an adverse opinion. This will not only mean that those who are at 20 years must wait for 25, but that those with convictions that are not disqualified under the pre 2007 version, but that are disqualified under the post 2007 version, will NEVER be eligible for relief.
I also promise any person who petitions and does not prevail, that I will do their petition a 2nd time if/when they become eligible at no cost.
Anyone who has any additional questions is welcome to call me anytime at (844) RON WINS (844-766-9467), or to write me an email at [email protected]. I do not charge for phone calls or initial consultations.
Best luck and wishes to all.
RMK
Well I was off probation after 10 years but had another ten years to register added cuz of some unconstitutional crap . So does my time start after probation? If it does than I would have 15 yrs so far
Another massive sting was coordinated by Central Florida law enforcement. This and one other makes over 200 arrests in the last month.
https://www.aol.com/m/efe9fe2f-a16f-312b-a394-e673a3b31fc1/sheriff-s-office-reports-86.html
Ok – I was under the understanding that after SORNA in 2007 the lifetime without the possibility of asking for removal relief from registration was added retroactively to all offenders on the list regardless of when the conviction took place.
@R.R
A judge ruled that there had to be a path off of the registry. But so many loopholes have been added since then. In fact, there is a lawsuit pending about the 20 year rule being moved to 25 years. If the 25 year law stands, whose to say down the road the law makers change it to 30 and every 5 years say there is a path.
Once they make it 50 years after getting removed, all of us will be long buried in the ground, or so old we could care less if we are on their dumb registry.
I am happy to say that, as of yesterday, I was granted relief from the registration requirements in Florida and should have my name removed from the list by next week. I am deeply grateful to Ron Kleiner for the work he did on my petition and especially for his incredibly strong brief to the Court. If any of you are eligible to be removed and want to file a petition, you are not going to find anyone better to handle your case than Ron.
@BioI57
Congrats to you and Ron. Hope you drop back in the room occasionally to support the rest of us in our journey to freedom with some encouragement.
I’m not going anywhere until the entire registry is dead, my friend!
Well Said, I will do the same if or when I am removed.
@Biol57 congrats. I just reached out to Ron. My case happened in another state. I am seeing what he thinks he might be able to do. I am waiting on his reply.
Good luck!
Congratulations
Thank you for bringing some hope.
Second degree sexual assault 25 years ago in RI. Zero brushes with the law since . Happily married over 40 years . We want to move to Florida
Leo
You have to have been off paperwork for at least 20 years but that is being challenged. They are trying to change it to 25 now and some have won on the 20 years and a few have lost. If you lose, you then have to wait until the 25 years and depending on your lawyer, have to pay a second time.
I am eligible but am waiting on the 20 year ruling to make sure I have the best chance for a win. If you meet the criteria, I can recommend a lawyer who is well known on this site.
So I’d have to wait another 15 years ? I was on the registry for 20 yrs . So your saying I only have 5 yrs off paper ?
The clock starts the day you are off paper and are free of any prison, probation or house arrest. From that point the earliest for now you can petition is 20 years. But like I said that is being challenged to change it to 25 but some judges are agreeing to allow you off at 20 years after you have completed your sentence.
So if you have been off probation for 5 years, you cannot apply for another 15 years. So if you move to Florida, do some research because out of the 67 counties in Florida, all 67 seem to have their own take on how to run a registry.
Some counties check on you a couple times a year and leave you alone otherwise. Other counties harass you and your family to the point you will want to move.
@Cherokee – Ron Kleiner told me that only those who were completely off paper before mid-2007, when the state changed the waiting period to 25 years, were eligible to get off the registry after 20 years. So, if Leo’s been off probation for 5 years, that means he was still on probation at some time after 2007, so he wouldn’t be eligible for the 20 year rule – he’d have another 20 years instead of just 15. If that sounds wrong, please ask Mr. Kleiner the next time you talk with him, because that seems kind of silly to me.
RAYO
Thanks, I think you might be correct. That is why I told the fellow to check with an attorney to make sure as each person and case seems to have some minor tweeks that could be different than another persons.
And if he still has 5 or 10 years left to wait, who knows what can happen between now and then. It could go either way, good or bad news. I have seen people who were removed from the registry in their state then moved to Florida and re-added for life.
Sick
Leo’s been off probation for 15 years
Leo please speak with a lawyer, a consultation is usually free to evaluate your case. But if you are 5 or ten years from being able to apply to get off, most will tell you to call back when you are closer to removal which is what happened to me.
Now that I am eligible, we hit a road block that has me on autopilot for now. (No fault of lawyer)
When can we expect a decision to be made on the 20 year rule,
And in what court, court case,and district was the rule being challenged?
Robert
According to the attorney, there is no time line. The court can sit on it legally until the end of time. A few people have convinced a judge to go ahead and let them off while this is being challenged, and others have been denied.
I had the decision to make and I did not want the risk so I am waiting. I cannot afford to lose that much money. If it is ruled invalid, I have to wait another 5 years, and who is to say then the courts won’t change it again to 30 years, kicking the bucket down the road?
If they do not want to end registries, why not at least give a reasonable path off for those who have proven themselves. Otherwise, they will find a way to somehow violate us (sounds like probation) and get us back on paper.
what part of Florida you reside?
Why has no one fought that a crime has a maximum sentence.(Second degree felony 15 year). So being punish beyond 15 years should be illegal making the registry illegal once you are past the max sentence for the crime.
I love these comments & reviews on sex offenders updates. Keep us “currently” aware!
Hello I was curious how Florida Handles Attempts because some states seem to drop them to a lower tier or make them more qualifiable. I have a
Sexual Battery by Adult on Adult
Victim/Injury not likely F.S.
794.011(5)(b) (ATTEMPT)
No sex Involved was a alleged Breast Grope outside of the shirt if you can believe that. 3rd Degree. This occurred back in 2010 can I ever petition to be removed?
Thanks
Qualifying and disqualifying offenses for removal of the “Sexual Predator” and “Sexual Offender” designations were first added in 2007 and enhanced periodically:
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2007/943.0435
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2008/943.04354
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/943.04354
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2016/943.04354
Additionally, both 775.21 and 943.0435 have added disqualifying offenses since 2007.
REPOSTED FROM February 15, 2020
For “Sexual Offenders:”
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/1997/943.0435
No duration in statute.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/1998/943.0435
(11) A sexual offender must maintain registration with the department for the duration of his or her life, unless the sexual offender has had his or her civil rights restored or has received a full pardon or has had a conviction set aside in a postconviction proceeding for any felony sex offense that meets the criteria for classifying the person as a sexual offender for purposes of registration. However, a sexual offender who has been lawfully released from confinement, supervision, or sanction, whichever is later, for at least 20 years and has not been arrested for any felony or misdemeanor offense since release may petition the criminal division of the circuit court of the circuit in which the sexual offender resides for the purpose of removing the requirement for registration as a sexual offender.
Duration of life/20 years added by 98-81
http://laws.flrules.org/1998/81
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2007/943.0435
Duration of 25 years added by 2007-209
http://laws.flrules.org/2007/209
REPOSTED FROM February 15, 2020
There STILL seems to be a lot of confusion about durations of registration before petitions can be filed. I hope this clears things up.
For “Sexual Predators:”
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/1997/775.21
(g) ……. a sexual predator who has been lawfully released from confinement, supervision, or sanction, whichever is later, for at least 10 years and has not been arrested for any felony or misdemeanor offense since release, may petition the criminal division of the circuit court for the purpose of removing the sexual predator designation.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/1998/775.21
(l) ……. a sexual predator who was designated as a sexual predator by a court before October 1, 1998, and who has been lawfully released from confinement, supervision, or sanction, whichever is later, for at least 10 years and has not been arrested for any felony or misdemeanor offense since release, may petition the criminal division of the circuit court in the circuit in which the sexual predator resides for the purpose of removing the sexual predator designation. A sexual predator who was designated a sexual predator by a court on or after
October 1, 1998, who has been lawfully released from confinement, supervision, or sanction, whichever is later, for at least 20 years, and who has not been arrested for any felony or misdemeanor offense since release may petition the criminal division of the circuit court in the circuit in which the sexual predator resides for the purpose of removing the sexual predator designation.
Duration of 20 years added by 98-81
http://laws.flrules.org/1998/81
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2005/775.21
Duration of 30 years added
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2007/775.21
Duration of life added.
So My offense that landed me the sexual predator designation was from April 1998 and I was sentenced a month or so before Oct of 98. I was released from everything on April of 2006. This month it will be 17 years since I’ve had any parole/probation and I haven’t gotten in any trouble since then. I’ve always thought the time frame of 10 years was moved for me to 20 years or later. Can I petition for the courts to have the predator designation label removed? Are there forms online that are available to do that? I’d like to get that in the courts but it would be nice if I didn’t have to spend a ton of money with lawyers as well.
OK was going to be mad that my post to answer the questions were not posted, then I saw Ron came on here .Because I called him back and told him there were so many questions, I guess he knew he had to clear up some things.
Who could say it better than the lawyer/Attorney themself. Him taking the time to respond here further tells me he is an honest attorney and does care about his clients. I haven’t even hired him yet but he has always spent time with me and not ever rushed me when asking him important questions.
So now since he offered his info you can call/email him personally.
And good luck and much prayer.
Please see post addendum from attorney Ron Kleiner.
Ok i have a few questions regarding all this.
What new ruling is to be expected? I thought back in 2019 a judge in polk county Ruled that if you were on the registry before 2007 you are eligible for relief after 20 years unless your sentencing stated you are not eligible or you have been arrested since you were registered?
I was registered back in June of 2003 due to i was 23 years old meeting random women online on dating websites and hooking up and one of them turned out to be 14 which i wasnt aware. It was a 1 time meeting. I recieved a withheld of adjudication which has saved my bacon as far as work goes and i never did any prison time i just did 3 years of probation. I live in Washington state now as a Level 1 been here going on 7 years its great here. Ive never been arrested or in trouble before 2003 or since. Does my 20 years start from the sentencing or From when my probation is over?
My conviction happened in Nassau county (northern Florida above Jacksonville) is there a recommended lawyer in Northern florida since i believe i read i have to challenge it in the county i was convicted?
I can answer all of those.
First: The 20 year clock the day you complete all of your sentences, prison, probation, house arrest etc. Once you have completed all legal sanctions, the clock starts.
Second: The ruling you asked about was a challenge by the state trying to get the 20 year thing stopped and make us all be on for life. That is being heard in August, the same stupid month I am going to try and get released.
Lastly: It does not matter where you live in Florida, Ron Will represent you as long as you live in Florida. He lives in South Florida but if I hire him, he will come to court with me in North Florida.
Ugh….So since i had to do 3 years of probation i have 3 more long years of this left before i can challenge since I’ve been on this since June of 2003? Assuming they don’t say its for life as of August regardless? I really hope they cant get away with that in August.
Yes the 20 year clock starts the day you were no longer on any sanctions such as probation, prison, or house arrest. 20 years from the day you ended all sanctions is when you will be eligible unless the rules change.
And also, according to Mr. Kleiner, the 20 year rule only applies to you if you finished ALL sanctions (were completely off paper) before the rule changed from 20 to 25 in 2007.
Rayo
Then why is he taking my case when I am not at 20 years off registry until August and I told him that at least 5 times?
20 years free going back from 2007 would be 1987 when no registry existed so your claim is confusing. With your thinking, no one could ever get off because no one was on the registry in 1987 that I know of.
That’s not what I’m saying. Example: I was sentenced to 10 years probation in 1998. So, I finished my probation in 2008, a year after the 2007 amendment that changed early term from 20 to 25. So, according to Mr. Kleiner, I am not eligible for the 20-year termination because I was still on probation when the amendment happened in 2007. So, anyone whose sanction (prison, probation) ended after the 2007 amendment happened, is also ineligible for the 20-year termination.
Ok thanks for clearing that up.
Another confusing note: i wasnt convicted in florida. It was in ny and federal. (Off registry in my state) What court would my petition be in if its in the county you were convicted in?
Does anyone know the case # or case name that is being reviewed by the appeals court?
I was told I could not get off probation and I did.
I was told I could not get out of prison after getting in a fight, but I did.
I was told as a sex offender I could not get medicare, but I did.
I was told as a sex offender I could never get a good job, but I did. (I am no longer able to work due to my health.
I was told I would not win as the only person in the U.S to Sue General motors without a lawyer and win, but I did. (Lemon law case).
I was told as a registered person I would most likely be re-arrested, but after my first arrest ever, I still to this day have not been re-arrested, 32 years later. (Came close though but believe it or not, the FDLE sided with me, shocker) And a lot of prayer.
There is a verse in the good book that says “All things are possible with God”. Does that mean I always win and can never have a bad situation? Not even close. But I endure and keep the faith.
Awesome. Amen🙏🏽
I had Ron Kleiner represent me 3 or 4 years ago, at the time it was $7500 , which I guess was at the time was a super buy, but what waste a of money, one or two pages was submitted in St. Lucie county, got denied because I had a pot charge in 2008 . my conviction from 1991.. I hope that one day or year, that Florida changes there Evil and wicked legislations….
For over ten years I have known the timeframe to be 25 years, not 20 years. Am I missing something?
When I was sentenced to county jail in 2002, the time to be on the SOR was 20 years. And from what I understand, Florida can’t move the finish line. So it all depends on when you were sentenced. It sounds like you were sentenced when the 20 years changed to 25.
What if your case happened in another state. Florida didn’t charge me. I been wondering about those whose case was out of state.
I’ve been down this road already. The state will absolutely pick and choose what they want to use to keep you from being removed. Even of you have the 25 years now required since completion of all probation. They will still use parts of Sorna that are not even part of the state requirements to keep you from getting off. My case was from 1993. They used one failure to register over 20 years ago to deni my petition. The judge look over my case and in her words said, I should have never been on it and wanted to remove me. But was unable to do so because of that one violation.
I spent 20 minutes in front of a judge and burned $10,000 so yeah. Be real sure if you use Ron you should know the odds upfront.
I got no reoffences yet that one NON PUNATUVE violation cost me what will probaly amount to life on this dumpster fire. Unless the laws change. I’m forever stuff. I’m a true expose facto case. They screwd me from start to finish.
Pariah
You just admitted you had one violation. Ron was VERY specific with me if I have had any violations or arrests since getting off probation to not even bother. And, he was also upfront that A) there are no guarantees and every judge is different, and B) He said He has had several successful wins.
There are zero guarantees and I know that. Even if I win the $10,000 has to come from somewhere. I have to do a loan on my 401k. I haven’t worked since 2014.
Im so lost now. Guess i had an arrest for a FTR but the state filed a “no information” and never even got charged with anything nor an arraignment. Was told that doesnt count. Im off my homestate ( never public anyway) but stuck here in fl on this damned list. It was a federal case in 1996 and all was ok until i came here unbeknownst. I came here in 2005 ish. Wasnt even living here fulltime yet.
Ok. And your pont is? Ron knew I had the violation and took that 10k no problem. I know it was not a sure thing. But he said I had a good Chance because of others in the exact same situation that had success. So im not bashing or praising Ron. He’s a good attourney. But if you have any arrests or Violations. I wouldn’t waste my money. It’s not going to happen until the law changes.
I spoke to a JA to a judge and she said that it will difficult to find a judge that will let you off. It could interfere with their re-election because they are now sex offender friendly and when it comes time to run again, that will be fodder for the challenger to use.
JJJJ…..your information is not correct, the 20 year rule is not for just Romeo and Juliet cases.
At the moment there is NO “procedure for removal”. As it stands right now, those listed (with very rare exception) are there for life.
Your odds of a random petition being granted are always less than 50-50 and realistically actually much less.
The lack of a way off of the Florida registry is one of the major problems being registered in Florida. Don’t be fooled.
@ Sex Offender Truth:
Re: “As it stands right now, those listed (with very rare exception) are there for life.”
Not exactly true. A good number of dead people still populate Florida’s registry.
Does the loophole of being arrested,even if no charges are filed, still factor in being denied removal?
Andrea
What is weird, last year someone typed that they got off the registry even with another arrest. Like all cases, the judge you get can be life or death sometimes. When I was sentenced I could not have gotten a worse judge if Charles Manson was on the bench. When I finally won my appeal years later to get the rest of my sentence thrown out, he did not say a word the entire hour of testimony by the prosecutor, the probation officer, my lawyer or me.
Once everyone was done speaking he slammed the gavel and said Effective immediately I hearby release you from the remainder of your sentence. I was hoping he would still be on the Florida supreme court but he retired.
Yes. You don’t have to be convicted. Just arrested I believe.
Here is another little tidbit that may help in certain circumstances, but not all: if your case was prior to October 1, 2004, you may be eligible for a certain type of relief based on where you can live. The residency restrictions by state law would not apply to you anymore. The main drawback to this is that local ordinances apply. So if you lived in a county that only uses State guidelines you can pretty much live wherever you want but you need to verify with the detective in charge and maybe even get a court order stating that you can do this. Generally the sheriff’s office will work with you but you do have to notify them that your case was prior to 2004. No city or county ordinances can be in place in that area you want to live in order for this to work. So you do need to do your homework. If you need an attorney for it it will probably cost you between $5,000 and $10,000 to go to court. Make sure you get an attorney that specializes in sex offenses. You probably could simply send a notice of intent to the attorney over the sheriff’s department and then wait for his response. If they don’t agree with you then you probably need to go to court. If they do agree with you then you will probably be okay. I sent a letter asking the sheriff’s office attorney and they thought that I was asking for legal advice which I was not. So be careful in your wording. If you are living in an oppressive county maybe this is an avenue for you for a better life where you can live pretty much wherever you wish within the county that has the proper laws for you to do so.
Florida has 67 counties and from all the drama people on here tell me of (By the sheriff’s or local police dram not by the registrants) rules are no where near being standardized. When I first was released from Prison I was in Seminole county. It was a living nightmare. I had city police, Sheriff’s deputies and FDLE agents coming to my house at least twice a week and sometimes more.
Once I got off probation, I moved to another part of Florida and have for the past 19 1/2 years no problems with law enforcement, only neighbors. And the neighbors meanness actually didn’t start from registry but once Nextdoor launched. Since that happened I could write a book on the incidents that have occurred. So many that I have stopped doing police reports since nothing is done anyway.
If I get removed from the registry, I will not move as I like where I live, just not some of my neighbors who liked me until I got outted. Then I was suddenly a monster? A monster who had never been arrested before or after that day in 1991.
But it should be stated that a great many of us are NEVER eligible to be removed – whether 20 years has elapsed or 200 years! 🙂
The 20 year thing is for those with “Romeo and Juliet” cases.
JJJJ
I think you might be wrong. My case was not a romeo and Juliet case and he is taking my case. You should contact him and clarify for yourself. I am guessing he looked at my case but maybe I am wrong. He told me Anyone who has gone 20 years without another arrest can petition. I would be awful ticked if the judge said I was not eligable after paying $10,000 (Which I have to borrow off of my 401k) and pay back.
I am going to send an email to him ask about your concern as he did not mention that. He seems to be very knowledgeable in this ruling. But thanks for bringing that up.
I will update with his answer
Good luck. I understand that some have succeeded but my petition failed. The judge already made up his mind before we showed up to court. The prosecutor didn’t bother to show up in person. Mr. Kleiner did a great job and put forth his best arguments but they fell on deaf ears. We can try again in 5 years if the law isn’t changed to prevent it. I will probably end up leaving this state, and probably the country.
JJJJ just got off phone with Attorney Ron Kleiner after you posed this statement and the good news for you and others, is you are incorrect. He said almost anyone who has gone 20 years without a new charge can petition under a ruling that is under review but for now still stands. In fact he said if the ruling goes badly, then I might not make it before I am eligible in August. But, if the ruling goes well, everyone can petition after 20 years. But for now I still can petition and if I get denied, and the ruling goes our way, I can get off with the new ruling. (If I get approved before the ruling and the ruling gets denied, I forgot to ask him what happens.
I thank F.A.C for posting this lawyer. He always takes my calls if available and is very polite but straight forward. He has been successful in numerous cases and think he is the best shot. $10,000 is a lot to lose but if I do get denied, I do not think it would be his fault.
He did tell me of a case (no names mentioned) of a guy who got of the registry and somehow the FDLE forced him back on due to SORNA.
Regardless, even though everyone and their cases are different, we are poking holes in the system and lighting fires under judges to start seeing the injustice of double jeopardy delusions.
If your case fits Romeo & Juliet, you can use it immediately – not x years later.
Anyone reading this must know that the 20 year rule does not apply to everyone on the registry. Some people can NEVER be removed — even if they have never reoffended in decades. That is part of SORNA, the Federal statute, not just in Florida. So, be sure you qualify before you spend time on this.
If the lawyer who is an expert on the matter doesn’t know, we are all doomed. My charges are from 1991.
This is all interesting but 20 years from what? And what does the SORNA law say that would be contrary to Florida law?
I’m curious about that as well.
Greetings….
Would you please explain which offenders would not qualify to be removed?