MI: News from Michigan – New SORA NOT Retroactive.
Hot off the press is the following Order from the US District Court from the Eastern District of Michigan.
Michigan – Final Order 06212021
While it’ll take a few readings to understand and be able to explain the full impact of the order, we didn’t want to delay distribution of this information.
At first blush it seems to be good news, as the court concluded that the new version of Michigan’s SORA cannot apply retroactively to people whose offenses predated March 24, 2021.
Discover more from Florida Action Committee (FAC)
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
Ed C:
You are absolutely right. Anyone who defies the law risks imprisonment if they lose the gamble. This is a very tough decision for someone who has a family. If you have a family or actually are becoming successful in life, compliance is the most prudent course of action. You have to swallow your pride and register.
If you can’t get any traction because of the registry and are living under a bridge you have nothing to lose. If you “lose” you will be fed and housed at state expense for a few years or perhaps decades if you live in Texas. If you win on a false arrest claim you will probably net $5,000 to perhaps $50,000 for your troubles. This is a very bad bet for someone making $50,000 a year but a good bet for the guy living under the bridge.
You cannot get an appellate decision unless you assert your rights and don’t back down. The problem is that if a prosecutor concedes on the constitutional issue and dismisses the case, there never will be an appeals decision.
Someone has to make that sacrifice. Some one has to be the Jesus Christ of the registry and risk crucifixion in order to get a supreme court decision. Many have asserted their rights and have gotten their cases dismissed because most prosecutors know that the registry is unconstitutional and they can render the case moot by dismissal. It will take that one registrant to go all of the way facing that one prosecutor that won’t back down. The registrant would spend a lengthy time in prison in order to get that decision. But until that one registrant and that one prosecutor take this to the Supreme Court everyone on the registry will be living in legal limbo.
In the early years of the registry registrants were on the losing end in court. They are still on the losing end but are finally getting favorable decisions that the U.S. Supreme Court will have to address, i.e., the recent victory in South Carolina. We have gotten these favorable decisions because of the shear number of registrants who have said “Enough!!” and have gotten their cases to the appellate level. It is only a matter of time until one of these registrants makes it back up to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court kicked the can down the road in Connecticut and Alaska. At some point in time the Supreme Court must decide on the constitutionality of the concept of registration rather than dispensing with a collateral issue. It’s going to take a lot of “Jesus Christ” registrants making the sacrifice until that one “Jesus Christ” registrant makes it to the Supreme Court.
Detroit
When I was in the county jail, I talked to a guy once in there. I asked him why he had been to jail more than 30 times (The guard told me that). He said he was homeless and he does petty stuff to get arrested. He knows he will have a place to sleep, a shower and a hot meal at least.
He also mentioned that he was hoping to get some medical assistance but I found out also, it takes an act of God to get any real medical assistance in the jail or prison. I nearly died and had to call my parents to have a lawyer to call to get any treatment when their was an outbreak in the work camp I was in.
Detroit, I don’t understand why you continue to encourage people to put their own liberty at risk. You can’t win a false arrest claim for a law that is on the books. You can’t claim false arrest if it results in a conviction. You can’t win a false arrest claim without a damn good attorney whose fees will soak up most of the judgment award. Attorneys don’t take contingency cases for lawsuits based on a novel theory with no history of success and little chance. There are 5 claimants in the original Does v Snyder case. It has been years since they brought their case, and none have filed a civil lawsuit for damages based on violations of their constitutional rights. There is no false arrest if the law on the books is in effect. There is no false imprisonment unless you are later proven to be not guilty. If you want to become a martyr for the cause, please do something to get placed on the registry and then refuse to comply. But don’t try to manipulate others into doing your dirty work. Don’t try to trick an indigent homeless person with phony promises of financial reward if they just suffer in prison for awhile. I was in Michigan prison for 12 years. I was homeless afterwards for a short time. I ate better as a homeless person on food stamp assistance than those on Michigan’s miserable prison diet do. Nothing more motivating than living under a bridge. Nothing more depressing than staring at razor wire day after day. Jesus knew who he was and that his suffering would only last a day. This registry thing isn’t going to be solved in a day, or 3 days. Most of us have already wasted years of our lives behind bars. We don’t need to be encouraged to waste more time locked up on a gamble that is nothing more than that, a gamble with odds stacked against us. You claim to be well off. Why don’t you offer someone $50,000 up front to be a martyr for you? After all, you are certain that such a martyrdom will succeed. But if you are or were a police officer, you surely know that it is a crime to encourage others to violate the law. The ACLU is STILL advising registrants to comply with the registry requirements until the final order is issued and everyone is informed about what it means. Any advice other than that is simply irresponsible and reckless.
Excuse me Detroit but no man is an Island. I wonder if Trump said that or maybe it was the Boston Strangler. Sure I got involved in this registry… why was it out of a crude mouth or because none of those on the registry were getting any justice or maybe some vanity of justice. Look at ACSOL and Janices struggle. Even NARSOL’s Sandy and others striving to understand this panacera cancer of justice.
One wonder who is stabbing who in the back with this sex type curse or who actually murdered Cain. Was it that Jezebel or that good guy or bad guy mentality or who finish’es last. Sure we all hold out on hope but is this Recroactive Justice man’s way of thinking beyond his or her means. Detroit you talk about troll’s or who spy’s out the enemy or who is having a bad day or chronic fatigue syndrome. Whould not you think this sex offender registry could be a type of mental strain on those caught up in much of this. Oh yes and the inprisonment of it all and also the suffering.
Detroit lighten up in your Mr. Goodie too shoes or should you go back to your bojangles or even a Tiny Tim song and dance. Myself and many don’t know you from Adam on here or are you eating Archie and Meathead left over meatballs, or maybe you are trying to judge a total eclipse of this black hole justice when one don’t know anything about it or who has their pants down today in this American Justice.
Note that I didn’t say Eve as she was naked also. So is judgment naked today in many respects. Oh and Cherokee don’t worry about the past as that will take care of itself. Pressing on for justice is a better quality.
I wish your words were pertinent to the discussion.
You’re off topic ramblings are super distracting
While I’m trying to think logically you’re speaking about god and random nonsense.
Jacob:
I have no criminal history. I have never been arrested in my life.
You missed the things this clown has been posting on other sites.
If you want to read nasty, read his post directed to me on ACSOL’s site. I responded to his post with the facts and ACSOL refused to post my comment and allowed his rude comments to stand. Someone mentioned I commented on this site and he specifically said that he will come to this site to “troll” me. You have to read his posts in context.
People who are on the registry need people who are not on the registry if they are to accomplish anything in ending the registry. This clown admitted that he is only trolling on theses sites and trying to cause trouble. ACSOL chooses to be a forum for this clown’s mischief. Non-registrants are actually the ones making the bulk of these changes. Look at what Miriam Aukerman has done. The ACLU doesn’t handle only this issue, it handles many issues. Miriam Aukerman has put an extraordinary amount of time in these various sex offender cases. Read her brief in Temelkoski. I disagreed with the argument the attorney used in the Michigan Court of Appeals and developed a new argument. I dropped everything and worked 7 days a week to redo the argument in the time frame allowed. The ACLU picked up the case and I sent the argument to the ACLU. The ACLU used the argument I developed and won in the Michigan Supreme Court. The point being that Miriam Aukerman put an extraordinary amount of time into Temelkoski. Miriam Aukerman is one of the lower paid attorneys. For what she is paid most attorneys wouldn’t have put 100 hours into this case. You can tell that Miriam Aukerman put hundreds of hours into Temelkoski and then many more hours with the updates in this case that she is not getting paid for. She has sacrificed time with her family and a lot of other time for sex offenders that she did not get paid for. Many registrants have thanked her for her hard work and sacrifice. Others like this clown choose to troll her. Look at the comments registrants post on ACSOL. Many state this 9 years of litigation was a waste and that they will never get off of the registry and they blame the ACLU and Miriam Aukerman in particular. They have no idea of the hard work that Miriam Aukerman and Professor Ringold put into these cases. What Aukerman and Ringold did was extraordinary. These self-centered clowns are on the registry because for a brief moment they were more concerned with their own desires than for their victims. They were placed on the registry for their actions. The registry is unconstitutional and more punishment than what they deserve. Some in society recognize that our rights are intertwined with their rights and choose to support them even though we disagree with their actions. Read what Thomas Paine said almost 250 years ago, “He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression, for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself”. This is timeless advice. My liberty is intertwined with this guy’s liberty even if he trolls me. My liberty is intertwined with every person on the registry even though I have never been arrested for a sex offense. We need robust debate and forums like FAC and ACSOL are important to that debate. There are self-centered fools in this debate who are on the registry for their own actions but choose to wallow in their selfpity and troll those who are trying to make a contribution in this fight. It is particularly galling when they show ingratitute towards the ACLU and Miriam Aukerman in particular. Some of the moderators on these sites show poor discretion when they allow these trolls to post. It is even worse discretion when they don’t allow others to lay out the facts to offset these trolls.
Go to ACSOL’s site and read disgusting in Michigan’s comments. He admits to being a troll and admits he likes to sabotage others in this debate. He gets off on crawling under other people’s skin and then getting a reaction from the person he trolls. This is why I rarely respond to his comments.
Read his comment in this post. He intentionally misinterprets this case to make it look like a loss. Gerald corrected him. These trolls add nothing to the debate and are here to only spread misinformation and serve as a distraction.
We owe a big debt of gratitude to Miriam Aukerman & MI ACLU for what they are doing. On that we should all agree.
Ok Detroit while we can all be impressed with your little resume accomplishments should we all get down on someone else. Should police officers, judges, committee’s, etc come to some unity on this registry subject or who gives second chances when it comes to issues of a sexual nature or even harming another whether in words or deed. Sure one has to look at the spiritual aspect of this registry and the physical aspects also. Does not the bible talk about words and deeds?
Sure I use to love the Ali and Coesell debates back than but how many knocks in the head does one need to come to ones senses. So do even authorities practice what they preach or is counsel setting fire to offend another in much of this registry ruse activity, or should one make a mistake in life. Sure one’s conscious can get the best of another but we still have our defenses in many ways to speak up. You carry a gun big deal. You ride a bike big deal but what about the truth and justice we all seek. Sure one can be penalized so were is the retroactive methods of all this or the re-debate of all this or should one take another look at one’s pricipals or who’s lead one away in much of this rape type situation. Even a court system couldn’t figure out whether or not to demote a president out of office with two inpeachments. This whole registry needs to be banned in many ways in many ways.
Saddles.
You are thoroughly confusing.
Nothing you say corresponds to the topics bring discussed. You keep asking very random, comical questions. The seriousness of the topic requires some moderators to delete his comments.
@ Jay: IMHO, “Saddles” might be a troll hiding down a rabbit hole.
I don’t know if he’s a troll or not. Not one single thing Saddles has ever written has ever made any sense to me. Like an old Star Trek episode where they all got some alien disease that made them rattle off completely nonsensical, unrelated words to whatever they were actually trying to say.
Alice
Why pick on the guy? We all have different ways of writing and expressing ourselves. He sometimes confuses me as well but he has never (As far as I know) threatened anyone or done any harm.
We are made up of a soup bowl of different races, ages, educational backgrounds etc.
If you don’t like him, just pass over his posts and read one you do like.
Just my two cents worth. Ganging up on someone can cause someone to leave and we need more people on here not less. And they allow comments on here by people who have actually threatened to kill all of us. So if Saddles get kicked off just because he may not write as eloquently as others, but they allow people to harass and threaten us, I would be the first to stop coming on here.
If you have a specific complaint about Saddles that makes you think he is up to no good, please share it? He may ramble on a bit but I do as well sometimes. We are all just frustrated as Hell about being put on the registry well after we were sentenced and for life for that matter with no hope of ever getting off.
CherokeeJack
I completely agree with you about Saddles. There have been comments made where we argue with each other over opinions and I decided to leave a site for almost a year. Last week I was upset when a person commented something like, “ If sex offenders were educated they wouldn’t of committed a sex crime.” Usually I don’t respond to people who comment blanket judgements; however that day a friend who is in our shoes recently released from prison, saw that comment and threatened to comment suicide, and I also saw the infamous, “ Protect Kids. Shoot a Sex offender.” Bumper sticker. I’m not the greatest writer but I’m not afraid to speak my mind. Hopefully I never have offended others by my comments.
Brandon
Thanks for your support and comments on here. I have never met anyone on here but feel I have made some friends. Stay strong, and keep the faith. I and others may never get off the register but I know one day regardless of what I did in the past, the only judge I answer to is the Creator.
I cannot undo what I did (Man if there were really time machines) but I can make sure I never ruin my or anyone else’s life ever again. As long as it is something I can control. for example if a tree on my property falls on the neighbors house during a storm and hurts or kills someone, I have no control over that other than cutting all the trees near my house.
Disgusting in Michigan:
I did respond to your post but ACSOL’s censors would rather post from a loser than someone who is actually doing something productive to take down the registry.
First, I want to thank you for admitting on ACSOL’s site that you are a troll.
Let me see. You were complaining that you were bumped up from 25 years to life. That’s a pretty short list of offenses. Let me guess, penetration of a child under 13?
You are on the registry because of your willful actions and rather than accept responsibility for your actions and move on with your life you wallow in your self-pity and try to make other peoples lives miserable as you admitted to on ACSOL’s site.
I have news for you. I live a very comfortable life that you can’t make miserable no matter how hard you try. I’m also a former law enforcement officer without any convictions so I have a right to possess a firearm and do exercise that right.
I have never been on the registry because I have never molested a child or raped someone’s son or daughter or anything else that lands people on the registry. I just happen to believe that these laws are counterproductive and need to change. Fighting the registry is only one of the causes that I am involved in.
I started working on an ambulance in Detroit in 1975 probably before you were born. I went on to become a police officer and a police investigator. I am one of the people who lock people like you up.
I have abided by society’s rules for more than 60 years and have been well rewarded for not breaking the law. I own a nice house in the city, a house on a lake up north, several rental properties, several boats, 2 trucks, 2 cars and 3 motorcycles, all 100% paid for. I will be riding around in my convertible and my big bike this weekend. I have a balcony behind my second floor window overlooking the lake. While you are trolling away on the internet I will be sitting on my balcony drinking a beer and enjoying the peace and tranquility that I have worked so hard for all of my life.
When the dust settles you will be removed from the registry. You may not believe it now but you and all others who are pre-July 1, 2011 sex offenders in Michigan will either be removed or receive a date certain for removal.
I say this because I believe in the Constitution of the United States. These legislatures can pass all the laws they like. You can google all of the laws overturned by the courts and will learn that there are many. Judge Cleland will issue a final order in this case. We will not know what will occur until after Cleland signs his order and MSP interprets his order and the 6th Circuit’s decisions.
I read in the comments of ACSOL that a lot of registrants aren’t happy with the ACLU’s work. This is ungrateful. Miriam Aukerman did an extraordinary job on several federal and state court cases for sex offenders in Michigan. Her hard work and dedication has paid off. Miriam Aukerman placed Michigan at the very forefront of the efforts that will eventually bring down these registration schemes. Every registrant and every family member and friend of any registrant should be grateful for the extraordinary job that Miriam Aukerman and Professor Ringold did in these cases.
You may not see immediate results but their efforts is what’s going to take you and thousands of others off of the registry and eventually bring down every registry in this country. Also, if they continue to compel you to register after these various court decisions you can seek monetary damages that you couldn’t seek if not for these decisions. This is no false hope. I have seen what goes on in the system for several decades and know how it works.
Detroit that is one of the nastiest most condescending posts I have ever seen on this forum.
The fact is that there are dozens on this forum who have made a contribution— greater than yours, I suspect— without bragging about how great they are or claiming any credit whatsoever. Some of them have the same criminal history that you do. And NONE of them have ever disparaged someone on here for being on the registry, or accused a total stranger of child rape, as you just have.
You pretty much said what I wanted to say, but I didn’t want to lower myself to his level.
I guess I’ll go sit in a corner and pout now since I cannot legally own a firearm, lol.
Jacob:
Originally, tier 3 in Michigan was penetration of a person under 13 and forceful penetration regardless of age. They have since added some non-penetration of a person under 13 offenses and kidnapping someone under a certain age. He claims to be a romeo and juliet offender but Michigan took all romeo and juliet offenders off of the registry in 2011.
When I post I try to place at least some reasoning in my posts to explain my view. I support others who post an opinion that contravenes my view. Read his posts. Rather than laying out any reasoning he will make things up to try to tear me down like I beat people, plant drugs on people or falsify police reports. He doesn’t do this on occasion but repeatedly when he can’t come up with a viable argument to support his view. I don’t care if people believe him or I. That is irrelevant. He is of the view that he is never wrong and must always have the last word. I know that I am not always right and usually allow him to have the last word. I really don’t care if people believe him or I.
I don’t know anything about his case but I do know who he is. He recently started a new job at a company that makes car parts for Audi, BMW and Porsche.
I own several properties in Michigan and am a member of the landlord association. When you are a member of these various landlord associations you bump into other landlords. I have met his landlord. He is an arab guy about my age that lives in Keego Harbor. The last 4 numbers of his phone number is 7008. I can pick up the phone and call him at any time.
I do know that he has a reputation as a quiet renter that gets along with his neighbors and may be able to rent to him. My properties are all in better areas that he lives in so I can’t offer him rent as low as he is currently paying. However, I can reduce his rent if he is able to assist me with my properties. I may even lower his rent if he assists in some of the causes that I am involved in.
He would have to go through the application process. I would be willing to waive the fees for him and pay them myself.
I don’t know about his case but feel comfortable in saying that he doesn’t fall under Michigan’s romeo and juliet law. If he falls under Michigan’s romeo and juliet law I will personally give him $1,000 if he and I go to the courthouse together to review his case file and it verifies that he in fact does fall under the romeo and juliet provisions of Michigan law. Derek knows me and knows that this is no bull.
My goal is not to tear him down but to yank on his chain so he wakes up. He and I are both on the same side of this issue and it’s not productive if we are both attacking each other. I am willing to bury the hatchet at this point. He is free to continue to vilify me if he wishes. The offer of $1,000 if he falls under Michigan’s romeo and juliet law stands.
Detroit
Even the Romeo and Juliet rule is discriminatory. What happens if they are a Romeo and Romeo or a Juliet and Juliet situation ?
*-)
I’m sorry, but you are wrong on so many points. I NEVER claimed to fall under the Romeo and Juliet case, and don’t need your $1000.
I work for what I have and I do quite well. I may not be as well off as others, but I pay my bills on time and have plenty of extra. I’m not hurting financially. She was the daughter of a guy in a bike club where I was a “hang out”. She told me she was 19, and her father said it too. She was actually 15, as I later found out from her mother, and I was 26 at the time, so certainly NOT a Romeo and Juliet case. There was NEVER any force involved. It was consensual. The specific MCL was 750.520D1A.
I didn’t just start a new job that makes parts for Audi, BMW, and Porsche. I happen to work for a company that is in electronics. It is automotive related, but our own product that we sell as an aftermarket kit. We’ve never designed anything for BMW, Porsche, or Audi.
My landlord is not a man. She’s a woman.
Your properties may be in nicer areas, but the area I am in is quite nice, very laid back and quiet and the police don’t come do compliance checks on a weekly or monthly basis as they have in other places I’ve lived. They’ve actually never been to my house here. Everyone knows everyone else here and we look out for each other. There is no crime in our area and I have only seen a sheriff patrol car drive down our road 2 times in the past. I wouldn’t move even if offered a month or two of free rent somewhere else. The house I live in is very nice and very modern, and probably the second most valuable house on my street.
If you started working for an ambulance service in 1975, then you are MUCH, much older than my landlady.
I would be more than happy to show you my PSI report from my case, but I really don’t feel that I need to prove anything to you or anyone else. I know now what I did years ago was wrong, whether I was aware of her age at first or not. The law is the law. I have nothing against cops. I have a good friend who works for the Lapeer County Sheriff. And I really don’t have issues with other people. I just don’t like it when people try to portray themselves as better than someone else. Everyone has skeletons in their closet.
I have nothing against you and believe it or not, I am actually on your side. I’ve NEVR claimed to be here to troll people or to sabotage anything.
Its hard to read people’s emotions when its in print. When I said I’m coming here to troll you, I admit that it wasn’t the best choice of words. But when I heard you were talking down on Cleland and saying Hood would have been a better judge, it really got under my skin. We couldn’t have asked for a better judge.
I’m ore than willing to let things go. All I ask in return from this moment forth is for you to not portray yourself as being better than me, not put words into my mouth that I have never said, because I don’t do that to others.
In return, I will apologize to you for inferring that you as a former LEO, may have planted drugs on people or beat suspects. Deal?
Now lets focus on this registry and work to make things right with it.
Disgusted
For both of you
I know you guys are both frustrated and I am no judge since I have gotten mad on here, even at FAC (Man times).
But there are many people who come on here who are not part of us and hate us. They love seeing us fighting among ourselves. I was once part of a group that fought so much, the entire group disbanned.
I have said this before and will say it again, lets all take a breath and think things through. Together we stand, divided we fall. I remember when the 9/11 attacks happened. The ENTIRE nation came together. Blacks and white, Jews and Christians, Old and young, Gay and straight.
Even if we kill each other after we win, lets get along at least until we get a victory. I am not grandstanding and as I said above, I sometimes get flustered too. But I for one am not getting any younger and I don’t want to be 90 years old and be told “Hey , congrats you are off the registry now that you have a month to live”.
@Cherokeejack, I’m all for that. Its certainly not constructive to be bickering and I agree with you. I don’t know who Detroit is, but I can guarantee he definitely doesn’t know who I am, who my landlady is, or where I work or live. He’s definitely not about the same age as her, because he’s made it clear that he’s older than me, and my landlady is 11 years younger than me.
As I stated in my response to him, I’m more than willing to let things go, and I even apologized to him, but he has to stop telling people I’ve said things that I’ve never said. All of my posts are still up, so everyone is obviously more than welcome to go read them all. I won’t tolerate it. I also will not tolerate someone trying to portray me as some monster. I don’t need to explain myself to anyone, but I NEVER forced myself on anyone. I never kidnapped anyone. And she wasn’t under 13. She was 15. It doesn’t make it any better in the eyes of the law, but she didn’t look or act like she was a day under 20. I could go on and explain the reason I was charged because I turned down her mother’s advances, but this is not the place for it. I could go on and explain how her father never wanted charges brought against me. I could explain how her mother tried to get the charge dismissed, but it was too late because the state already proceeded. I could explain how, when I was called into the police station to give “my side of the story” that I didn’t understand a thing about the law, or that I was signing a confession. A confession that I never read at the time because I believed the detective really was trying to “help me”. A confession that stated there were 2 instances of full intercourse, but in truth there were only 2 instances of oral sex between her and I. Does it make things any less against the law? No. But had I had the understanding back then that I have today, I would have NEVER met with the detective to give my side of the story, and I would have NEVER signed a thing, at least not without reading it for myself. Yeah, it was stupid of me, but I didn’t think about things. I just wanted to get out of that office, and the detective kept insisting that “these things happen” and I had nothing to worry about. Yeah ok. I should have taken it to a jury trial because neither her nor her parents wanted me to go to jail. I would have had at least a 50/50 chance of beating it, and probably better because back then it wasn’t as big a deal as it is today. I’m not saying I’m not guilty of sexual contact with an underage girl. I’m saying I don’t deserve to be labeled for life for something I did without thinking. Enough punishment is enough.
I’m irritated that the Does II this case dragged out in court and not seeing the relief we are entitled to. Its frustrating, and tempers do flare up. I hope to God that Cleland mentions something about the ex post facto issue of changing registration from 25 years to life, but as I’ve gotten older and wiser, I’ve learned never to get my hopes up and I only believe things when I see them. If I were granted just one wish, it wouldn’t be money or material things. My one wish would be to not die while still listed on the registry.
I hear you. I have always tried to stay positive but, we have no goal. At least in prison, probation, house arrest etc, you are given a sentence and you look forward to that end. With life time registration, what incentive do we have to reach a goal?
None because the only goal they give us is to be afraid every waking moment knowing it may be our last day of freedom. This due to a freaking non criminal offense such as being one day late to register. * Guy kills someone gets 15 years. Another guy shows up late to register gets life?
You’re quite wrong about my case. She was 15 and it was 100% consensual. Her father even told me she was 19, and she said that too.
I really don’t care about your financial situation or what you own. I have all my own stuff too that is 100% paid for and I happen to have a very good paying job, something I am very grateful for., and I also live a very comfortable life. Whether or not you have more “man toys” than me or someone else does not make you a better person. A person is defined by who he is, what he does, etc., not by how much money he has in the bank. 1975? Hmmm…I was in about 4th grade.
Judge Cleland was a very good judge for this case. His rulings time and time again in our favor attest for that. I doubt Judge Hood would have done a better job.
But my issue with you is that you repeatedly told people on ASCOL that pre 2011 registrants will either be coming off the registry, or reverted back to the 25 years. The Michigan Legislature screwed us all over concerning the ex post facto application of the 2011 amendments, and even thou Cleland made a ruling saying it was unconstitutional, the new amended version of sora does not repeal the 25 to lifetime registration period. So my question to you is, how can you say we’ll either be removed or reverted back to 25 years?
I’ve accepted responsibility for my actions a long long time ago. I also never in my life molested or forced myself upon anyone, so before you go saying things you know absolutely nothing about, why don’t you find out what the facts are? I’m certainly not wallowing in self pity. But I do believe in the Constitution and I believe it should be applied equally to everyone. Applying laws retroactively is just wrong, especially to those who have done there time.
It figures you’re a former cop. They always think they’re better than anyone else. All I said in my post was you gave people false hope and spread misinformation about Judge Cleland’s ruling, yet you want to try to disparage me as a person, and insinuate that I’m a child molester or worse.
I appreciate the fact that you are against the registry. A lot of people are. But telling people they will be coming off when in fact they won’t, IS intentional misinformation. That is the only issue I ever had with you. So go ahead and attack me personally if you want. I have learned to grow very thick skin, and if I don’t let the registry affect the life I want to live, neither will your words.
Good luck.
Disgusted
I am a former cop as well. And I do not think I am any better than anyone else. As a matter of fact, that is why I quit. Not all cops are bad, but the ones that are when confronted about it, will do whatever it takes to make your life misrable, including honest cops. I got tired of homeless people being beaten almost to death with PR-24’s, a type of night stick that was later banned due to the Rodeny King incident.
Do the right thing and report another officer and you get to mop the break room. I was even hand washing patrol cars, shining shoes etc. Got called a snitch and more.
Disgusted in Michigan, your main point is the same one I have been hammering on. I have seen nothing in the actual legal results so far that indicates that huge numbers of people are going to be removed from the registry. Neither the state, nor the ACLU, nor the judge has given any such indication. In fact, the recent order by Cleland specifically states that the final order WILL contain separate section outlining what parts of the old law can still be enforced. The judge specifically states that PARTS of the old law were held to be unconstitutional, not the entire law. The test for unconstitutional retroactivity hinges on whether the law is punishment in the legal sense. If Cleland DOES allow parts of the old law to be enforced, it’s because he views them as regulatory, not punitive, although I believe that the lower District Court felt that a court lacks the authority to rewrite a law like that to make it constitutional. It’s going to be difficult for the attorneys to make that further argument to the Court now that the judge has apparently ended the case and has indicated that parts of the old law may still be enforced, but I encourage those lawyers to hold the judge’s feet to the fire on that point. In the end, I don’t see the plaintiffs and defendant coming to agreement about what the final order should include that will be satisfactory to people on the registry. Courts have never ruled that such a registry can’t be PUBLIC. With a registry being public, registrants will still be demonized more that any other exfelons.
One of the parties in the original suit was placed on the registry because he was convicted of kidnapping involving a child, even though no sexual activity was involved. I personally know one man in a similar situation. I hope that they remove that part of the law, but it likely wouldn’t include huge numbers of offenders. That law never made sense. It would be the same as adding everyone to the sex offender registry who is convicted of providing drugs or alcohol to a nonadult. An inebriated victim is more vulnerable after all, even if no sex occurs. But if the federal SORA allows retroactive registration for past offenses, and the Supreme Court holds that to be Constitutional, state courts and federal courts will have to comply regardless of how each judge believes.
As you say, it is far too early to get excited about what we all HOPE will be in that final judgment. If Judge Cleland is bold enough to simply throw out the old law completely and remove everyone affected from the registry, the case could easily end up in the US Supreme Court finally. What would happen there is anyone’s guess. Or the Feds could simply rewrite their law and make it nationwide and retroactive, and take the issue out of the hands of the states completely. It’s always been a mess, and the mess continues.
Gerald
Although there are too many problems with the registry even existing to list, here is one thing that really concerns me. People who look at these listings, are not going to take the time to distinquish between crimes. A masseuse getting a little too friendly with someone during a massage, and someone who raped and killed a child are two very different threat levels.
And we have seen stories here on FAC of someone getting killed who wasn’t on the registry but someone thought they were, then another guy killed because someone thought he was looking at kids while washing his car. Even if he was, is that killing not as bad or worse than looking at some kids? Funny how some justify a murder as a long as it is someone they dislike.
You’re absolutely correct on everything, and no one could have said it any better.
I’m of the feeling that retroactive application of a law, whether it be deemed regulatory or punishment, is simply wrong. Its no different that changing the amount of a fine for a traffic offense, and making everyone pay ne new, higher fine for that specific traffic offense. This has to change. People who were convicted before the registry was created need to be set free of it. People who had their 25 years changed to life need to have it put back to 25 years. These tier designations without individual assessment is nothing but nonsense. They classify tier 3 as the “worst of the worse”. I’m classified as a tier 3, but if you knew the specific details about my case, you would say that I should not be classified as such. Believe me, its bad enough to be on the registry, but to be classified as the “worst of the worst”, when I’ve ALWAYS been the most laid back, non violent, never wanting to physically harm anyone kind of guy, is a nightmare. it makes me feel like I’m no better than Charlie Manson. i would never hurt anyone unless it was self defense, and I certainly would NEVER forcibly rape anyone.
You’re right though about the courts. They do not have authority to rewrite a law. That’s what the separation of powers act is all about. The courts are the judicial branch of the government and its their sole duty to interpret the law. Writing the law and changing the law falls solely on the legislative branch.
I think the courts need to take into consideration what happened during the past 16 months in Michigan. We were all excused from verifying our information with sora. We basically lived like free men and women for almost a year and a half and I have not heard of ONE instance where someone on the registry went out and committed some heinous sex crime. That in itself should be enough to show that the registry does NOTHING, and that the public has nothing to fear from us.
Now wait a minute you guys seems like everyone wants to go to fast to get some fair justice with this registry. Hey when I got involved and I’m sure many also with this offendse ordeal I didn’t know anything about SORA or what that agency or organizarion was all about but I’m sure everyone know’s what entrapt is all about.
Sure I feel bad for many of you all getting involved with this deal whether with a plea or even a jury of your peers. Did one ever take a look at what retroactive means or who would like to reactivate this sex offender B.S all over again. So who’s stumbling in all this Michigan ordeal or are Judges misleading in a lot of this SORA truth or dare. I’m sure someone’s getting a commission.
Everyone of you all on here have spunk whether retroactive or active or how many are letting the sun go down on you. Sure everything can be a waiting game but weight is what broke a lot of issues. Oh thats right we can’t protest and who’s gonna believe a sex offender. I’m sure they would believe a bank robber better than one of us or is everyone is looking for some justice on here, maybe a redress of grievance would be justified. Sure if I had to do my ordeal over again I would of went to court even pulled a fillibuster on them.
You guys why do you think I use the bible or talk someone about thsi in many of these ordeals. Its because thats the one thing government is in fear of. It was even told to me once when they wanted me to retake sex offender classes.. Oh we’ve decided that we no longer want you in sex offender classes but they wanted me in their before. Go figure.
Sure I look for a pardon as well as many, but an I’m sorry, frogive us or whatever from the state its not gonna happen. The state or federal is too proud yes too much pride. Theirs too much money in this tricky and much of this is intimidation. Sure I hope something good comes out of ithis retroactive look as it sounds positive in this odd type of review of this Justice and this SORA issue.
Remember one can always write “Letter to the editor” and show America how wrong it is with these sex registry sting issues even the incarraction of many. Putting someone on probation for life sounds like a phantom of the Opera eye candy ruse. Excuse my language.
Saddles
I agree and have said it before. How can they apply the law to those of us whose crimes predate any registry. Technically I could have avoided it in 1997 when I got released. But there was that issue of having to do years more on probation after I only did 40% of my time locked up due to gain time.
That is one instance I am glad they did not make something retro active. I did only 40% of lock up time. But while I was in others were having to do 85% of their sentences. I got sentenced under the 40% law (or what the percent was, I only did 40%)
But, how can they on one hand say they won’t make you do more punishment if you were already sentenced. Then turn around and say they can retroactively makes us go on registry 5 years into a sentence in 1997. I had to register within 24 of being released.