Yesterday, NARSOL and John Doe Plaintiffs got a victory against the State of North Carolina, which sought to dismiss a lawsuit brought to challenge the constitutionality of the North Carolina Registry.
“The Court concludes that Plaintiffs have alleged a plausible claim that the challenged provisions of the registry law are so punitive in effect to violate the Ex Post Facto clause of the Constitution. Because the Court concludes that Plaintiffs have stated a claim upon which relief may be granted, Defendants’ motion to dismiss Plaintiff’s Complaint for failure to state a claim must, therefore, be denied.”
A copy of the order can be read here: Does v Stein – NC – Order
It is a big win for NARSOL, a big win for advocate organizations and a strong persuasive precedent for other active cases, including ours in Florida.
My question is if North Carolina is a non-sorna state, How is it that they can have harsher laws than say a state that has Sorna. I don’t get it.. there is only 18 states out of 50 that have sorna, but North Carolina can still implement its own rules? At one time I did thought about getting the hell out of dodge (Florida) and than I hear about these non-sorna states that are not any better, so I stay put and draw a line in the sand….
How do you run a defense to these retro active laws in Florida? Im in a situation where im going to prison for violating a new retro active condition which wasn’t part of my plea 20 years ago. Are these issues that can be raised as a defense to have it thrown out. Should it be brought up in trial, hebas corpus, post conviction. I have a paid attorney but I don’t think he believes in the whole punitive thing or my rights are being violated by waking up every morning and me having to look to see what new things I have to follow. Im ready to fight.
B, I have a friend that is going through the very same thing in Daytona. The ACLU of Michigan filed a lawsuit against the SORA laws. The new additions are Ex Post Facto and violate the 1st Amendment. These are additional punishments made to make our lives miserable and are a violation of our Constitutional rights. Additional punishment can not be added after a sentence has been served and adjudicated. If it is unconstitutional in Michigan, it is unconstitutional here. I met with an attorney today and he is going to get the ball rolling for me.
Thank you so very much for what you are doing. I will be praying fervently for you.
For B, if you are able to do so, I would contact the Florida Action Committee about some good attorneys in Florida who specialize in this sort of thing. No attorney can know everything. That is why it is so important to hire an attorney who specializes in what you need. I know that you have probably given too much money to your current attorney already and will need to stick with him.
That is the biggest issue for everyone–the money to pay for the necessary legal challenges. If we could afford to challenge everyone of the state statutes, municipal ordinances, and the registry itself, we would find ourselves living in a better state.
Thanks to Rick Scott, we will be having to pay just under $37,000 when my husband is released. Scott saw to it that Florida judges can charge people who are incarcerated $55/day. I do not think most judges are doing that, but they are allowed to do so now. I would gladly take that money and challenge this procedure in court, but some entity has already done so somewhere in the nation, and the court upheld it. I would rather see an attorney get the money than FDOC.
Sarah, What entity challenged it? What State and what did the Court say? Let me know if you have this information. Thanks.
It could have been as long as a year ago that I googled something such as: Rick Scott makes it so that Florida state prison inmates pay $55/day for their incarceration. An article came up about a similar policy in another state being challenged in court and the judge said it was all legal. Unfortunately, I cannot find the article now. I did find the following, though:
https://truthout.org/articles/fighting-the-fees-that-force-prisoners-to-pay-for-their-incarceration/
If you go through the whole article you will see “courts have supported these fees because they’ve said they are ‘administrative'”.
Further down you will see: “Prison officials seemed to go after people who could pay and identified targets through financial disclosure forms, mail, bank or brokerage statements. All prisoners sued by DOC since 2010 had at least $10,000 in assets. In other words, the DOC was targeting the prisoners to pay for mass incarceration.” This occurred in Illinois, but there is a similar situation in Florida. They do target you. I have read that Florida will put a lien on your home, take away your driver’s license, can take control of your checking account, etc. If you have not a dime to your name, they will leave you alone (as they should).
JZ is very good at finding links to legal information. I am going to see if he is able to look for a lawsuit that was filed challenging this fee for room and board in what is pure hell and definitely involuntary. I read where the head of the union in south Florida for state prison guards said that Florida prisons are nothing more than modern-day dungeons.
Because this post was so long ago, JZ might not see this, so I will try putting it on a more recent FAC post.
Also, Ed, I have an attorney that I will be discussing this $55/day charge with. I have make a note to let you know if I find out anything about legal challenges.
My question ( And believed I asked this before ) say the case you have here in Florida is a win for the people you represent. Do we then all have to individually go before a judge or is it an automatic relief for all under the same circumstances. For example when I was arrested, there was no such thing as the registry and was added after I went to the Pokey so I and others had no say in the matter IE:” Oh, there is a registry, well then I won’t take that plea deal let’s go to trial”. ( That is what I would have said if I had a choice) Obviously most of us had no choice as they threw this at us after the fact. Just like Sheriff Shitwood tried to do with telling people who already had homes to move because he was changing the requirements. My Parents are elderly and do not have much family left so would like to one day be truly free. Like Dr. MLK said “Free at last, free at last “. ( No disrespect meant in using that saying )
There are two ways to bring a constitutional challenge; a “facial” challenge and an “as applied” challenge. A facial challenge, if successful, will strike the law as unconstitutional on its face, meaning it applies to all because there are no circumstances under which the law can be constitutional. An as applied challenge, if successful, will strike the law as applied to the plaintiffs, meaning the plaintiffs have a special set of circumstances that render the statute unconstitutional.
Naturally facial challenges are a bigger win than as applied, but they are much tougher to win. The good news is that even as applied challenges offer relief to others who are similarly situated that come behind it, because they serve as a precedent.
So are you saying that the Expost Facto challenge that FAC filed only apply to the plaintiffs which FAC chose for the case?
Case in Florida is both FACIAL and AS APPLIED
So am I correct in understanding that once the case is won on the basis of “as applied” the rest of us in Florida will have to file for relief using the “as applied” ruling as the precedent?
Shleprock, if your question concerns the topic of this post, a North Carolina case will not benefit anyone here in Florida. A Florida “as applied” challenge will benefit only the plaintiff(s) but will be binding precedent for anyone in the same situation when they bring their own lawsuits. If the state/municipality/defendant sees they are losing these cases based on the binding precedent, they usually stop putting up a fight.
Case in point; a few months ago we wrote about a case that was decided in Florida which ruled someone cannot be charged with different counts for both traveling and soliciting if it’s the same course of conduct (see: https://floridaactioncommittee.org/floridas-first-dca-vacates-more-convictions-for-double-jeopardy/).
If there’s some potential benefit out there, we’re pretty good at staying on top of it and letting our members know.
FAC, so the ex post facto case here in Florida is an “as applied” challenge? If so, should the rest of us file our on lawsuits? I am just a tad confused as I thought it covered anyone whose offense was before 1997?
No – the lawsuit here is facial AND as applied
Ah ok. Thank you for the clarity. I appreciate all you do.
A win in NC will benefit FL as persuasive authority.
Were it not beneficial, it would not have been posted on this site in the first place.
You are 1000% correct.
I thought of a good example of how Florida is being Hypocrites. When I was 19, they raised the drinking age to 21 but I /we got to still booze it up because they said we had already been able.
On the other hand, my crime was from 1992 when no one had ever heard of a registry. They said after 1997 everyone had to be on it, then they made it worse and went back to I think anyone living that had ever had a sex related crime had to register.
The state does what they want and challenges anyone with enough money to prove them wrong. Then getting a judge who will put aside their feelings and just rule on the law and what is right and wrong , well that is another thing all together.
Well that is all well and good but you have those who have no job and no money and 99.9999% of lawyers will not help them with a constitutional because of the expense. I mean look how much FAC is having to raise to bring the case to the courts.
I have a lawyer who states the state illegally has me registering 4 times a year when my charges do not justify 4 times a year but he wants $1000.00 just to start. Although he deserve to be paid it sucks I have to pay anybody to get FDLE to do their job. I wrote them and tried to get it fixed and they told me ( Off the record of course ) if I go against them I better watch my back. That is why I am on 4 times a year to begin with, I challenged them in court and won on another issue and after I won, I got changed from 1 time a year to 4
You may be able to contest it to FDLE much like a grievance in prison. I have done so before prose and won in part lost in part. Make sure to back it with case law. The part I lost was based solely on their judgement meaning they must have some power to determine outside the information (indictment) and face of the record. I Still feel like I can beat the thing with a lawsuit which I was about todo except it has gotten so bad here with new retroactive punishment stipulations better just to move because I am smart enough to read between the lines…no way could I go the rest of my life not getting caught up again accidentally in the dragnet they have set nor do I know what new law (punishment) will come out tomorrow. Florida seems to be going the opposite direction on liberty.
So your challenge is an “applied Challenge”?
Our challenge is FACIAL and AS APPLIED
I’ve tried to use the link to review the order but get nothing. Please check it. Thanks
So it appears that we have this court hearing a case that deals with the changing registration periods. That does not help us in Florida but it could help us in other states should we choose to attempt to relocate. That case in Indiana helps in that regard also if it stands in that courts might be less willing to permit states to treat out of state registrants Differently than their own citizens. Keeping fingers crossed as these and other cases move through the system.
Huge win. Should help ours and slowly the victoires and creeping slowly towards Florida. Off topic point: one of my fams favorite tv shows is Live PD. In all hours i have watched only twice did i see a stop that dealt with a person on the registry. But many repeat offenders for other crimes.
Praying we can all get off these registries. I was in my 20s when arrested and now a grandfather in my 50s. I tried to do the relief thing but lawyer told me not 25 years after release from prison but 25 years from any probation which was 16 years ago so I have a long road ahead and am scared because I am always compliant but every time I register they come up with some new sanction. Now we have to be finger printed every visit. They say it is to keep someone from registering on our behalf ? I did not make it this far just to go back to prison because I signed my name the wrong way.
CJ, I believe you can petition to get off the registry 20 years after your probation ends, not 25 years; assuming your date of offense is before July 1, 2007.
Also, who the fu¢k in their right mind, would want to re-register as a “sex offender” if they are not one? Your registration office or someone up their food chain has probably bungled away your fingerprints.
yeah man I don’t think SOs fully realize the nightmare that awaits them when they violate these dumb ass rules that are not even criminal in nature and only we have to abide by that have no bond and mandatory sentencing monitor system. Every time I register Im seeing SOs with monitors now from violating these rules. Guys like us been out over 20 years. Its really double jeopardy when these are terms of an old sentence you violate now your being charged again from terms on the same charge and using the points from the old charge to enhance the new charge I mean due process is lost no?
The entire system is based on ” Once a criminal / offender, always an offender. I once went through a DUI check point and it was obvious I do not drink but they asked for my driver’s license and once they ran it and saw my past charges from 1000 years ago, I was pulled over and held for 2 hours while they tried to figure out what to send me back to prison for. I finally called 9-11 and demanded a watch commander come to the scene. Once the officers found out I did that, the main officer came to my window, flung my license in my face, called me a vulgar name and told me to never pass through their city again.