A Pennsylvania Appeals Court has found that the dissemination of persons who have been convicted of sexual offenses’ information on the internet (Megan’s Law) violates the ex post facto clause of the Constitution for individuals whose offenses pre-date the ordinance.
Pennsylvania’s Supreme Court had a prior landmark decision (Commonwealth v. Muniz, 164 A.3d 1189 (Pa.2017)) finding similarly, so this new opinion will not likely be groundbreaking, but it will show that the prior findings are being upheld and people in Pennsylvania DO have relief from the public online dissemination of all their information.
The opinion can be found here: www.pacourts.us/assets/opinions/Superior/out/j-a12038-19oa.pdf#search=”‘Superior%2bCourt'”
NOTE: Pennsylvania has a State Constitutional Provision that protects reputation.
I find it ironic that this was posted in Florida, but not Butler county in which this is connected to. The paper the day before had information in the front page about the hearing, but as the legislature lost, at this level, it’s NOT on the front page. I deliver the Butler Eagle, the local paper, and nothing in the front page. I don’t receive extras and refuse to open someone else’s paper, I can’t say if it was in yesterday’s, or today’s, paper.
That, to me, shows a huge bias against offenders. I’m quite sure that if the plaintiff had lost that it would be front page news. In fact, the tv news didn’t say anything, either.
Or FAC members are just on top of their stuff! We need to thank one of our members for digging this up and sharing it. It’s a team effort.
I need help fighting Megan’s Law I’ve been for 15 years this year I went to prison in 1989 Megan’s Law didn’t start until 1996 I don’t have any money I’m on ssi
The Florida ex post facto case is for pre 1997 offenses correct? I can’t remember the exact date.
Incorrect – it’s for ALL
When you say that it is for all, are you saying it can help people whose offense was in the past two or three years? If so, how can it help them?
If a restriction was added in 2018 and the person’s offense was committed in 2017, it would benefit the person as to the 2018 amendment.
And it would benefit the 2018 offender because ex post facto is only one of several grounds on which the law is challenged.
It can help them because it challenges The law on multiple constitutional grounds, not just ex post facto.
100% correct!!!
Not a very detailed response. But you said it with such confidence you must be right. It’s sad when uneducated people mislead.
As a person required to register in Pennsylvania, this applies directly to me, and after several very careful readings and much research, I think this is what I’ve distilled it down to:
Since PA found, in the Muniz decision, that retroactive application of increased registration requirements and punitive measures (specifically increased registration period and amount of information collected/displayed), this new challenge specifically went after the dissemination of information via the publicly accessible website for those that committed their offense prior to December 12th, 2012. The challenge was successful, and the PA State Police have been directed to remove the Appellant’s information from the public website.
This doesn’t yet help persons required to register in other states, but does set a good precedent for determination of punitive actions by the registry.
The decision also doesn’t indicate that it will provide any relief to persons required to register other than the Appellant. Maybe we need a class action suit now? Unfortunately, PARSOL doesn’t have a very strong presence here in PA.
so if your offence was back in 92 and you want to move to PA dose this mean you dont have to register with PA just asking
Although I am not a lawyer, I have heard previously that they go by the laws the were in place where you were convicted so moving won’t change that “UNLESS” they put that in their laws language. A few people in this room stated they moved to Florida after getting off a list someone else only to come here and be put back on. I tried to do that myself and where I moved to was worse than what I had here so came back.
So if someone moves into Florida from a state where they did NOT have to publicly register online, doesn’t this same argument apply? The person would not need to be placed online as they weren’t placed online in their home state, thus being placed online is extra punishment?
No it does not affect internet listing by other states.
if it gets appealed to PA top court then to SCOTUS and cert is granted it could
Well it SHOULD affect them. It should NOT matter when a law was put in place and when a person committed the crime. What matters is that you did your time, completed whatever community supervision you were under AND got taken off the registry in your state, another state does not and should not have the right to put you BACK on a registry as that is the same as double jeopardy. Being re-punished for something you’ve already paid the price for.
States need to be challenged on that and it needs to happen YESTERDAY.
We don’t come off registries just to be put back on them when we move or go on a vacation. We regained our freedom and should have the right to enjoy it. Period.
why would you be put on the registry for going on vacation? If you are not on your states registry and visit somewhere else, why the heck would you have to check in with the local authorities? Just saying.
Moving there / here / where ever it seems you have to go by their made up rules. And yes Florida even has dead people on their offender registry
@Maestro
“What matters is that you did your time, completed whatever community supervision you were under AND got taken off the registry in your state, another state does not and should not have the right to put you BACK on a registry as that is the same as double jeopardy. ”
I’ll just leave this here as a response:
The state is obligated to REMOVE you from the registry if you leave the country. So if you are removed when going on a 6 month stay overseas, what right does the new state (that you move back to from overseas) have to put you back on the registry? Food for thought, especially for any attorneys on here.
Incorrect if you want to be technical. The “Double Jeopardy was being put on the Registry in the first place because you / they did their time and is being further punished past sentencing. Being put back on by another state after being taken off would be a “Triple threat “, since now you are being punished for the same crime incident three different times.
Why would anyone want to move to one of the harshest states in the Union? Florida is the de most Draconian state out of 50 states. I fled that state and what family I had left … I left there. Flee when you get the chance I been here for close to 10 yrs now and no problems at all
What state would that be?
This is the problem with Federal, State, County and city laws, rules and ordinances. Things are so confusing and different that people who can drive into another state and be arrested for something that is perfectly legal in another state. Then be told that ignorance of the law is no excuse.
It seems to be ok to ignorant of the if you’re a Pennsylvania state police officer. My court records can show this.
My opinion is that the “ignorance of the law” arguement for the prosecution went out the window when that started retroactively applying laws. How could you possibly know what future laws could be passed against you?
This was a search and seizure violation that seemed to be perfectly fine to the court. The officer even stated that he didn’t know that it was illegal.
humm so if someone from Pa visited FL> and FL> does not remove them then would FL. be violating PA law? or a person that resides in PA rights. things will start to get very very interesting
PA law does not cover what FL does.
Good question. I went down to FL to see my dad pass away as I had been notified that he was in hospice. I got there Monday, he passed at midnight Tuesday. I had to register there and understand that, though I had notify them that I was leaving for my home, I’m still registered there.
Yes, you will
Yes, you will…. I’m trying to tie that to a response. If it’s for mine, I wasn’t expecting an an answer. If it is, I don’t see a connection to what I said.
Sorry – it cut off. Yes, unfortunately you will be kept on the Florida registry even after you leave the state. It’s one of the horrible things the State of Florida does to people. By keeping everyone they can possibly justify keeping on their registry, they inflate their numbers to more than twice the number they are actually supervising in order to justify more federal funds.
I didn’t know it at the time, but had discovered it about a year later. That was about 2 years ago.
I hope F.A.C used some of these points of arguing, because if they did I be off the fla. Registry. My conviction was feb 25,1991 Way before Megan’s Law in 1994 and way before Fla, own 2007 law. I was released from prison in 2011 and forced to register against my will under threat of rearrest.
Well beef there are many of us in the same boat. I was convicted when George Washington was President ( It feels that way ). They came up with the registry right before I petitioned to get off of probation and won getting off probation but then got put on the hit list.
I wish F.A.C would get a list from all of us of the things that have happened to us because of the registry. I have been shot, been shot at, had my house shot up. Had my windows busted out. Had my tires slashed. Had dog poo thrown in my driveway. Had hate mail sent to my house. Had my family threatened ( Since moved them someone else safe ), lost two jobs that both knew my past but once customers came in and hung flyers about me embarrassing the staff, I was let go. Been made fun of by other employees who saw me on the registry. And in the past had dates break up with me even though I was honest up front, they could not handle the name calling when someone recognized me.
Well, it’s a step in the right direction. But it only applies to a small handful of people.
After all, Megan’s Law was passed way back in 1996!
What about the constitutional rights of all those convicted since Clinton’s presidency?
Yeah they went and did the Retroactive thing on a bunch of us. I didn’t have to register, then I did, then for once a year, the twice and now 4 times a year.
I filed a petition against FDLE and won and got them to remove some of my information. That pissed them off and they changed me from 2 times a year to 4. My lawyer says he can get it changed for $1000 but no refunds if I do not win even though he is 1000000 % sure it is illegal what they did.
#1 I do not have mad money to make the FDLE do their job and fix the info, and #2 whose to say we don’t fight that and win and they cause me more issues. They pretty much silenced me. I have a family to look out for.
Hopefully F.A.C can get a win for us, and if so, I can get some of the money that is tied up in legal mumbo jumbo until after I am off the registry then I can bless whoever wins for us with a donation.
Cherokee Jack, who is your lawyer? I am pre 1996 as well and went through the same changes as you. I have the added benefit of a court order against public and community notification. My designation order was two paragraphs, the first designated me and the second said no public and community notification. It’s a single page and signed by the judge. I have hand carried this order to FDLE twice and they refuse to follow it. Two different counties I have lived in acknowledge and follow the order AND when I register, there is a red banner that scrolls across the screen on the sheriff’s dept page of the FDLE site that states I am not subject to such. SO they KNOW! I am thinking that by knowingly violating the order, they should have to PAY if I win. I just need someone I can afford to pay now, so I can get repaid later.
It’s highly unlikely they will remove anyone. Look how long Michigan has gone without making the changes they were ordered to. I wouldn’t hold my breath that a slew of pre date offenders will be removed. I’m currently working with a Fl Attourney and petitioning for removal becuase I honestly dont see any other way off this hit list.
If you have gone the required 20 or 25 years you might have a shot but an attorney I know who has been successful told me you have to follow the statue so if you have not been off paper for at least 20/25 years the judge is not even going to hear you case.
Check first before throwing thousands of dollars away. I almost made that mistake and this lawyer was honest and refused to take my money because that is all he does is sex offender cases
Not being a negative Nancy just trying to save you from wasting your money. Just be sure to check the statues yourself
You are correct. Done my homework on this. Been off over 23 years. Already paid the money and an judge has set a date. We shall see how it goes..
Good luck and wish you the best. Stay strong and fight on
In light of these recent rulings, has PA actually amended their statutory requirements?
Yes, they have. Pennsylvania now has a complicated regime that separates requirements for those convicted before and after certain key dates.
Yes, so complicated that the police, my counselor, and former probation officer have little accurate information themselves.
How are we supposed to get it correct and stay of prison if the authorities can’t get it right?
@RM & EN
Is this the 134 printed page beast you speak of [§ 9799.55. Registration] ?
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/42/00.097..HTM
Just a cursory view leads me to believe someone convicted of an enumerated offence after April 22, 1996, but before December 20, 2012, falls into the ten-year registration requirement. The language [§ 9799.55(a)(4)] also leads me to believe even if convicted in another state, the ten years starts to toll on your conviction date, not after any probation or parole.
If that is the case, any Floriduh registrants, who qualify for the ten-year “deal,” and who have already languished in Floriduh for over 10 years after conviction, should migrate to Pennsylvania post haste. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I’m curious because I pled to a 10 year registration and somewhere along the way, without paperwork, or my signature, it ballooned to lifetime. Act 10 lightened my SORNA responsibility, but I’m lost on whatever else occurred. Researched my paperwork as my counselor insists that I had a SOAB hearing, but NONE of that shows in of my paperwork.
Anyone in quite a few states, whatever registry, may be better in PA. It’s definitely better than Texas, Arizona, Florida, Michigan, Nevada, and Oklahoma.
As to whether Floridians on the registry will get shorter registrations is yet to be known to me, but they will be treated better by the government, and probably, by the police….though there are always exceptions…
I’m from Floriduh. I moved to Arizona. It is way easier in Arizona depending on your classification. They do an evaluation, consider your offense, time since conviction, any further arrests etc… they assign a tier based on these factors and also how you would have been charged if the same offense were committed in AZ. The tiers range from 1 (least restrictive ) to 3 being most restrictive. I have always been treated with respect and dignity. By far, Floriduh is the worst state which I think is their point. To convict the most with the least effort and make pay the most in penalties. Too many stupid people making the laws there. That said, I would like to see more factual information here. Seems like there’s a lot of opinions and not as much factual information. And please don’t misunderstand, I mean absolutely no insults. We are all dealing with crap from society!
Addendum to your response.
If it is based on my conviction date, I’m almost 2 years past that end date. The police don’t seem to have released me, nor have received paperwork stating such.
My counselor states that this is because I was determined SVP. Again, no paperwork in my possession relates this to me.
@EN, If I were you, I would read § 9799.24 [Assessments] very carefully and try to determine why you are now a SVP.
https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/42/00.097..HTM
December 20, 2012 is when the law became effective, if I’m reading correctly. So any Pennsylvanian who has not committed a sexual offense in the past five years should not be listed on the internet registry, this ruling suggests.
Am I reading it correctly?
This is significant for Pennsylvanians, but what is the cutoff date (if I’ve misread)?
My offense was in FL in 1988. I had since moved to PA and had never been back to FL. In 2003, I was required to register under Megan’s law annually for a 10 year registration. When PA enacted SORNA on Dec. 21, 2012, I was notified that I had to register for life and report every 3 months instead of once a year. As of this date, the only thing that has changed is that I am back to registering once a year. How many more years I will have to register is up in the air. The PA State Police Megan’s Law Division is currently reviewing cases that go back before SORNA. How long will it take for them to review these cases remains to be seen. They could procrastinate on this forever, which is my concern. They also play the game of which state had the longest registration period. Florida has a lifetime registration, so since my case was out of Florida, they are saying that I have to register once a year for life. Since I live in PA, they should go by PA law. So, these are some of the issues I am facing here in PA as a FL offender. I will most likely have to hire an attorney to try and get things figured out, if that is possible? This whole thing has been a nightmare from hell, over a simple charge in 1988. I feel that the whole sex offender registry is a disgrace, and does absolutely nothing to improve public safety. Just a bunch of vindictive crap perpetrated by politicians and attorneys to make it look like they are really doing something to protect children, and to get easy money.
You are preaching to the choir. Many of us are in the same situation and it seems like the Story and David and Goliath. The little guys fighting against the big bad Government. We just need to have faith that our stone hits its mark and takes down the giant and his / its bullying and unfair sanctions for something that happened way before these laws were ever thought of. My case is from 1991 but didn’t get off paper until much later and that was only after winning an early termination hearing for relief of probation.
I suggest you contact lea bickerton esq. pgh pa. She is straight, with you and I think the best sex offender attorney in Pennsylvania. I feel she charges a fair price for great work.