Finally, some great news to report.
A person (note: no longer a “person required to register as a sex offender”) has been ordered removed from the Florida Sex Offender Registry.
Florida Statue 943.0435(11) contains a provision that says, an individual “shall be considered for removal of the requirement to register as a sexual offender” if they meet certain requirements, including; it being at least 25 years (formerly 20) since they were released from any sanction, have not been arrested for any other crimes, and meet a qualifying offense (not limited to Romeo and Juliet).
Attorney Ron Kleiner was successful in obtaining this relief on behalf of one of his clients, who will now become a “person” again!
If you feel you might qualify for relief under this provision contact your attorney, or for more information write to [email protected]
To All,
I just spoke with Mr. Kleiner and he stated that this case was argued based on this individuals release from sanctions.
Doesn’t the fact that they wrote “20 yrs, UNLESS you were arrested for any crime period” prove that they just want to keep people on the registry? What would reckless driving, or driving on a suspended, or even failure to register have to do with your risk to re offend. I could understand it saying being “convicted of a violent or sexual offense. Is there anything being done about the bogus issue and law making when it comes to 943.0435?
It says “arrested”.
well I know it’s not written like that, but that’s what it means. What about the question? lol
It cannot be used as “proof” that they want to keep people on the registry.
no other state holds a simple arrest against u…that’s screwed up yo
Kenneth,
I completely agree with your post. The Florida Legislators pass registration Laws that make it extremely difficult for some registrants to live without violating the law for the 20-25 year duration. Then, if you have been “arrested” for any reason, you spend the rest of your life on the registry. The truth is, The State of Florida receives Millions of Dollars per year in federal grants for the registry. I believe that’s why the State keeps the registry so bloated. Its all about Money and Votes at the end of the day…
Kenneth, can you provide a link to that information? I can’t seem to find any info on duration. The ex post facto lawsuit mentions that the 1997 statue was silent in regards to the duration of registering.
you are correct. There was no mention of a time of registration in 1997
“He argued they can’t move the finish line”. It seems to me that the court did not apply the law ex post facto to this individual. I wish I could know where the starting line was in the case. Offense date or end of sanctions?
Your clock starts running at the end of sanctions; that is whenever you were finished with probation.
NOT the arrest date
NOT the conviction date
NOT changing from ankle bracelet monitoring to probation
It is from the date/year that you were let off all county/State Restrictions. When you were set free (per se)
So if they took you OFF PROBATION/ Completed Probation in 1997 Thats when your clock starts.
If you completed probation in 2000, that is when your clock starts.
IF you are still ON PROBATION (2019) you have to wait till you are off probation for your clock to start.
screw the state of florida…I moved to Colorado springs and was removed from the sex offender registry because of the time..15 yrs…florida is the worst of the worst…funny thing is if I come back to florida I go back on the registry..its people like ron book who make florida a pos to live in as a sex offender
yes i am in a similar situation in another state, however the Florida registry continues to block employment in my industry, international travel and any background check that is done it will come up and people don’t care about which state. the reality is i’m not “off” until Florida says i’m “off.” the big thing for me is I still cannot pass a background check and I am still unable to work a permanent, decent, gainful job and support myself. I hustle and work temp and do what i can but it’s far from being able to survive on my own. WE CAN’T FORGET ABOUT THE CASE THAT NEEDS SUPPORTING REGARDING THIS ISSUE. (didn’t mean to yell… 🙂 FAC’s Out of State Lawsuit needs funds!
I put money there too… Problem is not too many people know of the issues here. I think there were an article(weekly report) a few weeks ago that F.A.C posted that some person or Org. did an audit on the Register people in Florida Maybe can used that article to get the argument going maybe reach out to those people for help. Give me the name and phone and I call them myself even though I have hard time hearing on phone I be glad to help start the lawsuit
what about people who were charged and convicted of failure to register. Do you feel there could be a possibility that once people start getting removed, that they would change that language from “haven’t been arrested for any crime” to “convicted of a violent or sexual offense.”?
What MY greatest concern is, if they take your name off “the list” and you do everything you are supposed to do (change license w/no identifying markers– take all cars that dont belong to you off the list)
Then some”yah-hoo cop” who knows you pulls you over and says you didnt register, no ID mark on license, EVEN THO YOU ARE OFF THE LIST, will arrest you and throw you in jail.
OR….
They will say that the State says that, but Indian River County didnt implement that.
WOW, this is getting some attention. Can you tell me if it was a Romeo and Juliet case? Or was he on for 20 years with not getting arrested once? It has not been 25 yrs since the registry started in Oct 97 for him to be on for 25 yrs, so I’m guessing 20. Can you tell a little more about the circumstances?
Not R&J – 20 years with no arrest.
Call in to the monthly member call in March – Ron Kleiner will be guest
I had emailed Ron K. I was told from the day you finished your sentence. I got 11 and 1/2 years to go unless FAC beats it on ex facto suit
It’s been established that the clock starts on the day you finish your sentence. I’ve been told by Ron K that he’s getting tons of calls from people asking the same question. Please, he’s not employed by FAC, so lets not bombard him with calls asking questions that have been answered here.
Getting someone removed from the Florida SOR does not have to be complicated, and it does not always require a lawyer. The case of a friend of mine was referred to an attorney, but, after a minimum amount of research, the lawyer gave up without success. I did not. I wrote several letters to both Virginia, the state of the original offense, and Florida FDLE. Florida said that this person is on the SOR in Florida only because Virginia wants him to be there. I wrote to Virginia authorities and posed that question: “If this individual were living in Virginia now, would he have to register?” They answered in the negative. I faxed that response to the Florida FDLE, and my friend came off the registry within the week. Don’t get discouraged. Never give up. Force the authorities to respect their own rules.
FAC disseminates useful information that allows thousands of registrants to comply with the law more effectively. They can do so without having to resort to legal advice, which of course we leave to the lawyers.
In the present case, the excellent Ron Kleiner appears to have successfully argued that when it comes to petitioning off the registry, the statute that was in effect at the time of one’s offense, should govern when one is eligible for consideration. The statute governing eligibility changed in 2007. So if you committed a crime in 2008, the law says you must wait 25 years from the end of your judicial sanction period (not 25 years from 2008) to be eligible. But if you committed a crime in 2006, then you must wait 20 years (from what, I don’t recall, might just be 20 years from release into the community). And if you committed a crime in 2007, as someone alluded to below, we don’t quite know, because we don’t know when in 2007 the new statute went into effect, but whoever is able to recover that information, good on ya.
Anyway, I’m just rehashing what the law is. If you need legal advice, consult an attorney, obviously.
What if my offense occurred in 1991 then what
Jacob, do you know for a fact that the court went by the offense date in this case?
FAC, would it be possible to post the offense date and punishment imposed on this individual?
Please correct me if I’m wrong but the 1997 statue did not mention any duration of registering. I believe this 20 year provision was added in 1998. My offense date is April of 1998 so I think I would be subject to the 1997 statue. If I’m not mistaken, the federal law was 10 years in 1997. Does anyone have an opinion on what this might mean for individuals in my situation?
To all,
I understand that Florida adopted the “registry in 1996”, and since then has moved the time you can petition to get off the registry every couple of years since then.
I, like everyone else wants to be off this damned thing YESTERDAY. In another thread FAC has posted the years that all of the laws were changed/amended.
The “time limits” START when you are finally off ALL probation (minus the 1-3-6-12 month checks).
The information is in the FAC files. Please look them up. FAC is limited on funds and resources to track down threads that you can research for yourself.
FAC CANNOT AND WILL NOT GIVE ANY LEGAL ADVICE. They (FAC) has posted on many different threads, in many different areas, what the dates were that the laws were changed, restrictions added, for the State and several different Counties.
Seeing that most of these posts are asking for some kind of “legal advice” (ex. i was in 97.. I got off in 2007; what about me–I was convicted in 2005…..) That FAC has repeatedly said “contact your attorney”.
I would suggest that BEFORE YOU POST, Please READ the posts in the thread before your’s, you will probably get your answer from that.
ALSO, seeing that FAC CANNOT give ANY legal advice, and thru their commitment to the “community” they are posting the LAW– they advise you to contact an attorney.
WE NOW have an attorney who will look thru your case for consideration, and by my talking to him he will not charge you until he accepts your case. This is the same attorney who WON this case that this thread is about.
Atty. Ron Kliener
(954) 540-0170
He will be better off giving you better advice than FAC.
(it is just getting redundant to see the same kind of posts, day after day)
I know you want off “this list” just as bad as I do. GO to the attorney, he will talk to you. You will get what you need as far as info goes.
FAC CANT.
Sean
Thank you for the good information I always appreciate your input. But not everyone here is asking for legal advice . The SOR laws are so complex and contradictory from state to state nobody seams to have a solution to figuring out how to make sense of or any harmony between these laws and restrictions. By hearing others personal delemmas were better able to try and find the path that’s right for us individually. Please don’t try to squash dialogue.
All comments help to reaffirm our convictions to fight this evil.
To Sean:
Yes I would like to point out that yeah some of us are seaking legal advise but we shouldn’t have too the system was set up by the government and none of it is uniform so how come other laws like stealing or murder or anything that is illlegal almost the same in any other state ? But sex offenses aren’t ? So my opinion is that yes we need legal advice and I would like to talk to your attorney, but I know it’s going to be a lot of money, that I don’t have , so again the laws here are basically being a federal sanctions so the smart office is the one who give the other states their grant money to put the sex offender registry and laws into affect so how come the federal court or government can’t step in and make this all the same ? I’m not gripping at you just asking if anyone feels the same , and the smart office is rubbed by the FBI , but try emailing them and watch what kind of response you get , this what I’m saying we live in the United States so the laws should be united and if you got you case in 1997 or if you got it in 2007 then what ever was the sanctions during that era then that’s what we should be under no other crime do they do a retroactive change to the law and get away with that, so why should Sex crimes be that way ? I understand that some sex crimes are worse than others and I also know that not all of our victims are 16 but I keep getting told that this is not a federal problem but I disagree, if you move from the state you are convicted from and the other state makes you do what that state has for that law and the sanctions are far worse than the one you got from the original state, then yes the federal government should step in and make it the same. I’m saying is that I can go and get convicted for murder and do my time get out do parole. Move to another state and be done with it but us on the other hand we have to relive this twice a year for the rest of our lives. Their is no uniformly is the sex laws. I’m sorry but this my way of venting cause I’ve been dealing with this since 1997. So please excuse me. Ok and thanks
Donald,
I am not trying to be a “patty Party Pooper”. You just cant write a letter to the FBI and say…
Hi. Im Sean and I would like to be taken off the sex offender list in Fla.
You would need a letter from an attorney costing thousands of dollars; multiple pages
And Donald, I am far from rich…. I make $1,100/month and pay a mortgage, plus meds for my Stage 4 COPD.
I have $1K saved. I have till 1-2020 or after to get the amount of $10K.
And again, the “CLOCK FOR CLEMENCY” only starts after you have been off ALL TYPES OF PROBATION.
NOT date of arrest, or date of conviction.
This is just for Florida.
Sean D,
It does NOT go by your “offense date”, It goes by the date that you completed ALL of your probation, house arrest, therapy and any other legal restriction they put you on at the time of your sentencing.
I was arrested 4-94, plead out 2-95, and was off all paper in 1-2000. THAT is when the clock starts. Mine is a 20 year wait.
You are correct
What if you did your time and got out in December 2015, no probation, no paper, nothing?
Gary,
I only know of what I know about myself.
For a much more concrete, definitive answer, PLEASE CALL
Ron Kliener 954-540-0170
It did mention 20 yrs in 1997. You could be removed also if you had your civil rights restored, but they changed it in 1998 to a full pardon. When the launched the website the had the word DANGER! in capital letters and sirens flashing around my head. It was quite traumatic and brutal
Kenneth, can you provide a link to that information? I can’t seem to find any info on duration. The ex post facto lawsuit mentions that the 1997 statue was silent in regards to the duration of registering.
Hi all I just look up this wettering act and Florida has done what my state did to me so I’m am so screwed but I have provided Florida with a court document stating that I am no longer required to register but Florida says no. • A person who resides in Florida and who has been designated a sexual predator, a violent sexual predator or another sexual offender designation in another state with requirements to register or be subjected to community or public notification in that state is required to register as a sexual offender in the state of Florida. Only when the person provides FDLE with a court order issued by the court that gave the designation as a sexual predator or sexual offender which removes the designation and provided further that the person does not meet the criteria for registration as a sexual predator or sexual offender in the state of Florida, will the person’s requirement to register be removed. I did this and I’m still on the damm thing. And this guy gets off!! This is bind justice for sure. I have documents showing that I should of never been on the registry at all but hey I did it but this is crazy.
This person no longer met the requirements for registration in Florida.
If you feel you no longer meet the requirements, please contact your attorney.
Donald
I can sympathize with your frustration. I too was removed from the registry in 2007 from my offending state of Kansas with a letter stating that and that I am no longer required to register . But I now live in Missouri which has different laws and different requirements as to who has to register. I was listed with a misdemeanor offence in Kansas but at some point Missouri changed there laws making it a felony with a permanent registration. Ex post facto they say it applies to me even though ex post facto laws have been repeatedly struck down in Missouri courts. I’ve hired a lawyer but so far he hasn’t figured out how to get it back to court to challenge it.
Just wanted to add one of the reasons Missouri listed it as a felony was because Kansas had closed the books on the case they couldn’t get any details. So they had to make up there own.
Yes I too got the same but mine was a felony a class c felony but they don’t do class a , b, c,or d any more it’s tier 1-3 ( I think )
But what I am arguing about is that I was supposed to be removed from the registry prior to me moving and if that would of happened I would not have been required to register here. But I am giving up. I have just no more fight in me. Let alone the same offense that theses youngsters are getting and not having to register for their sex offense is the same as what I got hit for. Thank you for responding
Donald, you should contact your attorney or if you don’t have one, give Ron Kleiner a call and see what he says. A phone call for some feedback couldn’t hurt.
Let us hope this is one of many. But 20 to 25 years is preposterous. It should be once you finished your sentence and all the conditions of your sentence are met. Then you can petition the court or better yet it become automatic.
I agree Mary and thought the same. I finished my probation (released early) on all of the conditions including therapy. The courts always look to see if you finish the therapy successfully and therapy people always give the ” ok ” and say to the courts: this person is not a threat or danger to himself or to the public. Well, if I’m not a danger and released from probation, why do I still have to register for life as if I’m still a danger ? Nothing but a catch-22.
Agreed.
Agreed as well. That would be ideal.
Hey all first time poster. So if he argued you cant move the goal line what about those of us pre 1997 that fall under the Weltering Act that said ten years
There is a lawsuit challenging that presently in the Southern District of Florida.
Welcome Tearful Eagle,
You have to be “off all paper”, in other words no probation. Monthly checks and 3-6 month checks dont count.
Age of “victim” over 13 yo.
NO further arrests since being off probation.
In other words, You have to be squeaky clean since being off probation.
I spent 20+ minutes talking to Ron Kliener. He isnt the type to talk over you, he listens. He doesnt care what you were accused of, he just wants the law to be brought “to heel” and that the lawmakers cant just move the “goal line” every couple of years. There has to be an END to this.
I am VERY confident in this guy Atty. Kliener. I am starting to save my money!
I KNOW that there are no guarantees in a court of law, but this is the best I have felt about this in decades.
Thank you for the welcome. Offense was before 1996. Been off paper since 12/2007. Time of my offense there was no Florida Sorna only law governing me was Weltering Act. 10 years and was in the Federal registry because Florida didnt have one. 2017 should have been my Freedom year. Tiny cracks shatter the glass. This victory is that crack. There has to be more out there like this victorious person.
Not following, Tearful.
Florida had a registry in 97. Anyone who was on probation at that time is on the registry.
I guess my point was this. Since my offense predates the registry in Florida when i was sentenced I was placed on the only registry possible which is the fed one unless i am mistaken. My question really is due to me falling under the Jacob Weltering Act shouldnt that be what I am held to? Intead Florida comes up with the first gen laws in 1997 which said I have to be on for 10 years after probation. That eneded in 2007. So 2017. Then in 2007 they moved the finish line on me to 2027. Then they moved it again to 25 years the to life.
If the argument for the person who got relief is that they moved the finish line should that apply to all?
You are mistaken – there is no federal registry. You are also mistaken about the Florida Statutes.
No worries all i know is in march of 1996 I was sentenced. The stated tjT i had to register as an so. If there was not a Florida registry at the time i am not sure what he was talking about.
Tearful, I was told 10 as well by my lawyer and probation officer.
98-02: Guidelines to Florida Sex Offender Laws December 18, 1998
This is what i found under 98.02
Sexual Offender/Predator Designations:
• A sexual predator who was designated a sexual predator by a court before October 1, 1998 and who has been lawfully released from confinement, supervision or sanction for 10 years and has not been arrested for any felony or misdemeanor since release, may petition the court for removal of the designation. A sexual predator or sexual offender who was designated by a court on or after October 1, 1998, and released from supervision or confinement for at least 20 years and has not been arrested for any felony or misdemeanor offense since release, may petition the court for removal of the sexual offender/predator designation.
Look I am new to looking at this so dont count in me I am just thinking outloud.
Good point. Very good point!
that means if you were a predator then you use to be able to challenge it after 10 yrs. Now it is automatic lifetime as a predator, and you cannot challenge the designation to become an “offender”
Man….lucky bastard!..lol That is great for the individual and wonderful job by attorney Ron Kleiner. Hope we can all get that same feeling some day.
Finally a person that gets relief with that provision. I was wondering many times if there were ever such a case and couldn’t find any. Truly happy for the person. No more registering or anything.
I have to wait about 20 years to meet that provision.
But wait, this is a provision to the original 1997 Statute. We’re not at 25 years yet. Did this guy get the Court to allow for 20 years since that was the law at the that time?
yes
I had been arrested for a failure to register but they filed a no information and didnt pursue. No charges. Did they screw me? Does that now mean i cant do this?
You should speak with your lawyer.
Is this the first case brought to a Court under the provision?
Is it safe to say that a positive outcome regarding the ex post facto case would also give back to some of us the requirement of 20 years rather than 25. Year 2000, I think, is when that changed.
Any idea which county, judge and prosecutor it involved? The way the statute reads, a Court must first agree to consider the case, using certain requirements as their guideline, then the original prosecuting attorney (if still there) is the one assigned to it and then both he/she and the judge must agree. Even with the provision, there exists a lot of “ifs.”
That’s good news! Thanks Ron Kleiner. I’ll be researching to find if there is anyone else. We’re two years now into the 25. (1997).
I’m sorry I can’t add. 1997 means we’re only 22 years from the original statute itself!? So this guy really did pull a miracle. Hmmmm…
prior to 2007 it was 20 years. He argued they can’t move the finish line.
He argued in THIS case that they can’t move the finish line, and that argument prevailed and resulted in the removal?
Or was the individual simply eligible under the newer (25 year) statute as well?
Prior to WHEN in 2007?
When in 2007 did the change become law? That actually matters in my case and to that of any others who committed a crime in…2007.
July 1, 2007.
So if your date of offense precedes this, you should be in the 20-year vice 25-year “relief” window. Of course you should be free of all the other requirements that have been piled on since then as well. But that’s another story.
If anyone is interested in knowing how I determined this, just ask.
It’s the first that’s come across our radar.
We do have the full case information but with the FORMER registrant getting out of the public eye, the last thing we want to do is put them back into it by bringing any attention to the case.
Yes – there are “ifs”. The prosecution does not need to agree but the judge obviously does. The statute reads the court “shall” consider – it’s discretionary whether it’s granted, not discretionary if the court considers it.
I will try to get Mr. Kleiner to speak on our member call next month.
Wow, this is huge! Thanks for the info!
” I will try to get Mr. Kleiner to speak on our member call next month.”
That would be great!! Thanks.
Interesting that offenses under s. 800.04.6 and .7 are not included. These are second degree felonies and not life or 1st degree. You would think that the statue would at least allow removal for those convicted of “less critical” offenses. Perhaps those two offenses were added after fs 943.0436 was enacted into law and should be revised.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they add more disqualifying offenses to the 25 year provision from now and years to come to prevent more people from getting relief. Imagine if you are close to the 25 year mark and they add your offense to the disqualifying list. That really blows. Hopefully in such a case, it can be argued similar to the – you can’t move the finish line of 20-25 year argument – .
@ABC
I think those offenses are the ones ( the ones of 2nd degree felonies you mentioned are subject for relief ( the list you are seeing for the provision is “disqualifying” offenses – the first degree ones and so on ) Interestingly, some second degree felonies which do have relief are included in the disqualifying list only with conditions, such as, if the courts find that the offense was forced or coerced or the victim was unclothed.
From any sanction…? Does this mean off probation/supervision? Or the date of the original offense?
Does this mean that is DOES NOT include required registration every 3-6-12 months (which IS a “sanction”)
Does this apply to only a small, minute group; like those caught peeing on a dumpster, or does it include sex-offenders and/or predators who meet the same criteria?
What are the “qualifying offenses”.???
But anyway—-YOU CAN GET OFF THE FLORIDA REGISTRY!!!!!
Problem is, None of us “regular people” will be able to afford the “tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars” to retain an attorney.
It should just be Mandatory to release, and off the list after 25 years
Sean – it’s release from probation.
The offenses include:
a. For a violation of s. 787.01 or s. 787.02;
b. For a violation of s. 794.011, excluding s. 794.011(10);
c. For a violation of s. 800.04(4)(a)2. where the court finds the offense involved a victim under 12 years of age or sexual activity by the use of force or coercion;
d. For a violation of s. 800.04(5)(b);
e. For a violation of s. 800.04(5)(c)2. where the court finds the offense involved the use of force or coercion and unclothed genitals or genital area;
f. For a violation of s. 825.1025(2)(a);
g. For any attempt or conspiracy to commit any such offense;
h. For a violation of similar law of another jurisdiction; or
i. For a violation of a similar offense committed in this state which has been redesignated from a former statute number to one of those listed in this subparagraph.
FAC maybe I’m wrong, but these seem like the offenses that do not qualify for relief with the 25 year provision.
You are correct, Debbie.
in 2007 they changed the statute to 25 years and added the exclusions.
For offenses arising before October 1995 but after January 1, 1994, are those exclusions retroactive or retrospectively applied?
What if the offense is from 1995, would the excisions fall under the moving the goal line?
Thanks for the correction.
Also – it’s not “tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars”, Sean.
I hope this person is removed and they do get their life back. However I know that in reality, this will never truly be the case. This is a major step forward though. The websites that scrape the data off the state websites may not remove him/her from their sites, however. Perhaps a name change after the removal, in a secret court would be in order due to the circumstances.