Last month we invited registrants to answer the question, “Had you known that sex offender registration requirements would be expanded to where they are today, would you have taken a plea?”
The results are in and 92.2% of the respondents said NO, they would NOT have plead guilty had they known that the sex offender registration requirements would have been expanded to where they are today. That left 7.8% who said they still would have taken the plea.
The Supreme Court of the United States held that a guilty plea is valid only if done voluntarily, knowingly, and intelligently, ‘with sufficient awareness of the relevant circumstances and likely consequences.’” Bradshaw v. Stumpf, 545 U.S. 175, 183 (2005).
If certain consequences, such as residency restrictions, didn’t even exist at the time we took the plea, how could we have had “sufficient awareness” of them?
Great question! Please explain how it is NOT a biased argument for the court in that everyone after 1997 that meets criteria for a sex offender resgistry is clearly “designated” by a court and “informed” of all the requirements of the sex offender registry while someone accepting a plea between 1994-1997 ( before October) is not told anything but made to register even if their “standard” probation, not even sexual offender probation, is made to register for 20-25 years and all the requirements even if within 3 weeks of early termination from probation? It seems to be a clear possible argument that would seem to violate an initial plea agreement? If someone committed a murder in 1994 for example and at that time the state did not have the mandatory life sentence but 3 years into their sentence, laws change making murder a life sentence, you cannot go back and change their initial sentence so why add an additional 20-25 years of punishment to someone or in some cases life on the registry? The deserve the same right as everyone who falls under that criteria from 1997 onward… and that’s not to mention anyone “truly” a danger who was released from any sanction prior to oct 1 1997 and is out there… thanks
They justify it by saying #1 it is not part of your sentence but a retroactive law applied. #2 they argue it is NOT punitive / Punishment but rather civil in nature.
Their argument is like for example, everyone has a blue license plate and starting in January, everyone has to have red license plates. You can no longer have a blue plate and BTW the new red ones cost twice as much.
This is not punitive but if you do not comply and continue to drive with a blue plate you can be arrested and fined and have your driving rights taken away.
Judges making rulings are saying if they retroactively said everyone with a sex charge has to go back on probation for life, that would be tossed in a heart beat but they are saying the list is not punishment.
Here is the reality I cannot believe the courts cannot see. If they had written the law to say “Anyone who is arrested for a sex crime on or after January 1st 1997, they will be designated an offender and be put on the registry, at least you know you could face that if you do commit such crime. But to grandfather in people who may have committed their crime in the 80s but are still on probation seems to be prejudicial anyway you look at it.
Since sex crimes are the AIDS epidemic scare of the times, no judge really wants to be known for being compassionate towards the accused , even if in their hearts they know this is legally and morally wrong.
Even when a ruling is made in our favor, it is appealed to the ends of times and once it goes before the supreme court, if it ever even makes it there, not enough of the justices are willing to rule in our favor to make a difference.
The states spend so much money fighting these challenges they could feed every homeless person in their state for the rest of their lives and still have money left over.
Many of us took pleas because we were faced with far harsher penalties if we took it to trial.
it is easy for us to say such things in retrospect, but when we were facing trial, it was stressful and we were looking at 5 years versus life and knowing he/said she saids favor the she, so we took what we can get.
I took the plea because prison was going to happen, how long was the only question. I’m glad I took three plea and would again. Being on the registry with all of its conditions isn’t even a valid argument. You have one choice, follow the rules or go to jail/prison. I have been out almost ten years and my life is way better now than it would be if I were just getting out. To truly, honestly answer the question I think people need to remember what they said in the county jail. Take the plea or do the max.
Actually the true and correct answer is, there is no one blanket answer for everyone. Some like myself who were tricked into a confession before speaking to a lawyer is what f-ed us. I asked 3 times for a lawyer and on the third time my family was threatened by the investigator. I would take a bullet to the head to protect my family so that is WHY I caved and signed anything he wanted even confessing to every crime ever committed since Adam and Eve.
If I had , had a lawyer, at most I would have plead to one charge with at max 5 years probation or otherwise would have gone to trial. The lawyer I finally got ran me out of money then bailed on me and instead of the court offering me a public defender, they suggested I ask my parents for money. No way was I taking my parents retirement money to save my tail, guilty or not.
Since my lawyer was going to bail on me, my only choice was to take my chances and that was the 2nd worst mistake of my life. The first was getting myself in the situation in the first place.
I often said if I had a time machine I would go back and get a lawyer. Then I realized, wait if I had one shot in a time machine, why not go back and correct the mistake I made to get me in that situation in the first place.
Unfortunately a lot of us made it to where the prosecutor didn’t have to do anything but show up. When you just hand them a plea on a dinner plate, you are cooked. I suppose it didn’t help that both the prosecutor and the judge were females. Before anyone says “That sounds judgemental” it is not. Females are known to be more sensitive and compassionate. Ok Not towards the accused but towards the accuser, which in my case did not even exist except on a paper since they never showed up once for court. If I had gone to trial, they would have had to show up and they didn’t want to be in that situation any more than I did.
After that judge was rotated out, the new judge was a man and actually a long time friend of my then attorney. He actually made up for the down fall of my case by taking me on an appeal of sentence. (Yes I had to pay more money ) The same prosecutor showed up but I was ready this time (I got balls of steel after doing time) and I was not leaving that court room without some redemption.
The remainder of my sentence (I had about 8 years left) were tossed, ruling the sentence, although within guidelines, even on a fist time offender, were excessive and obviously by the notes left from the original ruling judge, given out of anger, disgust and as retribution as if she had been the personal victim of the accused.
The prosecutor made a big scene and was nearly flopping on the floor in protest. I burst out in tears of joy. My Mother was with me and she did not know I had won and she said “It is ok sweety, we can try again next time” lol I had to explain to her that we had won.
I do thank God for that victory but before I get too old, would like to be able to become a citizen that actually provides something to my community other than a photo on a list that everyone passes around on social media. I / we did the time, and even if I had done all of my sentence, it would have been over long ago.
I find it ironic that more people are commenting on the poll results than probably took the poll! I can’t fathom how you came up with 92% saying they would not have taken the plea. Anybody in Floriduh that was slapped with CP charges would have faced up to 100 years in prison. I was looking at 75. You would have to be a fool to turn down a five year plea deal when you’re facing 75-100 years in prison. No judge or jury in Floriduh will acquit on CP charges. They are treated more harshly than murderers. Get real!
What I find ironic is someone who was looking at porn could get 75-100 years but someone who actually was in a relationship with a kid got 10 years probation. When I was in court, I saw case after case get a few years probation ( Sex charges ) for less than I had done so was for sure I would be able to get some mercy. For some reason the judge did not like my attorney and keep telling him to sit down and listen to what she is saying. He was never able to get a word in so I cannot blame him.
In Illinois, judges must advice defendants they must submit to the court a retraction of plea within 30 days of taking plea. Once a plea is taken inmates are placed in solitary confinement with no access to pen, paper or postage for 45 days. Judge Victoria Rossetti of Lake County, IL (highest payouts for wrongful convictions of any US county) ruled that despite valid argument to bring case back to court request slip requesting a pen and paper dated 10 days from plea was untimely as it was received by court 12 days past the required 30 days. Defendant had no access to paper, pen or postage until that day.
That is reason for appeal and I’m sure the appellate courts would have a field day with that.
So who here can tell me how many people have actually been removed from the Florida registry after 20 yrs with adjudication withheld prior to the 1987 retroactive change and the 2007 change to 25 yrs and the lawyers that have handled those cases that didn’t charge you over 10 thousand dollars knowing most of us don’t have that kind of money just laying around just a question I keep asking because I cant find any thing not case law or court documents to show how many if any have been removed
Don
need to explain better, Florida didn’t have a registry prior to 1996
unless i Missed the memo!
my bad I meant 1997 still do we know of any one thats been removed and where can we find that information
Attorney Ron Kleiner provided that information on an FAC conference call not long ago.
I’m not sure.
I took a guilty plea, I was, on the condition, on paper, that it was a 10 year registry.
During the course of signing the paperwork, a waiver was slipped in that I didn’t catch, and my attorney did not explain the significance of, that made me an SVP. Now, I’m on the registry for life, wondering what the f@#k happened. I took the paperwork in to my counselor only to discover this waiver thing.
I’m in PA, charged and convicted, and served time before the AWA. Thankfully (sigh) for the Act 10. It took some of the strong out of my situation.
As to whether I would have taken the plea? I don’t know. I has usual long term prison threat used, but I may have gotten off on an illegal search and seizure of my computer. I’m not getting into all that as it’s too complicated to go into here.
Hell.Fucking. No
Heck no. Also my plea deal was because I was promised probation and if the judge refused the request I would automatically parole out in 4 months. I signed the plea deal knowing he was not going to defend me-he even told me it was not his job to defend me and we wasn’t going to do any work on my case and the judge wouldn’t let me fire him. My complaint to the Board of Responsibility and Judicial Conduct were either ignored or denied. When I found out he had never requested probation and my parole time was over a year later it was too late. I also found out in TN sex offenders are not eligible for early release.
I forgot to mention that I wanted to plaa under the Alford Plea which would allow me to plead guilty but still claim my innocence and fight back. My public pretender-I mean defender- told me there was no such thing and he had been practicing for 20+ years. He had also
been friends with and practiced at the same firm the judge back in their younger years and should have been thrown out as conflict of interest in my opinion.
I took a plea of 5 years doc, 3 years probation. My other option was go to trial, get 15. Also my PD said there was talk of changing there charge to first degree, no way they could have, and going after much longer sentence. So in that situation, at that time, I would always take the plea.
The judge read something about requirement upon release, honestly I couldn’t tell you what he said other
than it might be this or that. Nothing definite.
Ultimately there is no real option. You will have the same life on the registry whether you take the plea or you go to trial and sit in prison first. Is prison better? No. I hope relief will come soon.
Absolutely not, in fact if i had not had a lawyer almost pressure me to take a plea stating that if i didn’t i would spend the rest of my life in jail i would have never accepted a plea. The judge saw my charges and gave me light probation(which i got cut in 1/2 2 years later and no RSO gets shortened probation) She also took away some of the restrictions many RSO’s have like living near parks and so on i can still vote and my final paperwork said no victims under the age of 18 (pornography on my laptop was my charge but it was never viewed) and i believe the judge saw i was not any harm to anyone, under 18 or over etc… but i would definitely take it to a jury or judge if i had to do it all over
When I took a plea i was told i wouldn’t even BE on the registry. Good luck with that since I didn’t get it writing. Even if I did good luck with that. Everything – the plea deals, the Legislation, the Laws themselves all rest in the safe keeping of the Civil Code and until or unless you can get a judge to say “it’s punishment” which many judges from afar have already said, there ain’t a damn thing we can do about it.
It’s also about keeping up the work we are doing by creating interest in the issue and educating the public so that courts will WANT to hear and decide on these cases – something the Florida Supreme Court has refused to do and Federal Courts dodging the issue by allowing frivolous delays and technicalities to relieve them of fulfiling their duty.
We forget that when courts WANT to hear a case, suddenly the gears of justice turn awfully fast. Interesting trivia: Roe vs. Wade started as a Federal District case in June of 1970 and the US Supreme Court issued its decision forever settling the issue in January of 1973. A little over THREE years is all that took and here we are in our second decade.
Just gotta keep on keepin on! Keep up the good work FAC!!
I wonder if we could challenge this out of the international human rights laws because a lot of the foreign countries think the registry is ridiculous. To my knowledge it’s never been brought up. 8th and National laws on human rights trumps all laws.
It’s true that our registry schemes violate the human rights standards of several (mostly EU) countries as well as those of human rights advocates such as Human Rights Watch.
But human rights are broader than constitutional rights, and in US courts, for better or for worse, it’s only the latter that will carry any weight.
Read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights from the 1951 Refugee Convention. I think it is Article 26. It will open your eyes. If any country violates any of those rights then they are subject to being charged with crimes against humanity by the UN.
Looks like a great declaration. But it’s been around so long that, were it to carry any weight in US courts, by now we’d know that.
There may be situations where it can be enforced, but I assume those are limited to diplomats protecting their own citizens who are on foreign soil, that sort of thing.
I was sentenced in 1997 as a youthful offender. There was no such thing as a sex offender. And now this which affects my kids and wife as much or more than it affects me. Mind blowing how unconstitutional this is. Yet our corrupt government and liberal judges think they can just trash the Constitution all they want. It’s absolutely disgusting and sad.
Praying for change… Ex Post Facto has to win. Enough is enough.
I was convicted in 1994. 16 years old charged as an adult. Had one techinal violation 17 years ago for an address change and they still will not let me off this shit show. I feel your pain believe me.
Absolutely NOT! Not only did I expect to NOT be on a registry at all until the night before my plea hearing, my lame attorney told me that, since the judge was likely going to withhold adjudication (which he did), I would be able to expunge the whole record after probation ended, since I wouldn’t be convicted. Of course, the statute that prohibited such expunction for sex crimes and DUI was already on the books! I was really scared of a possible 15 year prison sentence, should I fight the charge and lose. I expected that, should I lose, I would kill myself before showing up for prison. My lame attorney also told me that restitution would not be demanded. My restitution bill turned into a huge sum that I paid over the course of my 10 years of probation. I lost SO, SO much (money, career, freedom, etc.) from this plea deal. Some guys are actually guilty, but deny it. I was not (though barely), since in the early 90’s, when my “crime” occurred, the age of consent was 16 if the “victim” was not a virgin (of previous chaste character). My 16yo male “victim” started having sex at age 12 and groomed me at least as much as I did him. I have learned that I used to be a complete un-streetwise wimp, and my attorney knew that from day one, and chose not to defend me properly after I was foolish enough to pay him completely up front . I have toughened up a great deal since then. I read countless news story comments nowadays, where people don’t take any pity at all on horny teen male “victims” of sex acts with teachers, etc. Back in the mid-to-late 90’s though, it seemed I had a worse chance in front of a PC jury. I admit that what I did 30 years ago was inappropriate and immature, and limited to this ONE victim, but an otherwise law-abiding and very decent person needs a way to redeem himself or herself. I was first charged in Seminole for sex with a 16 yo. When they realized that the young man was not previously a virgin, law enforcement dropped the charge. The excited, ultra-conservative parents (one a lawyer) then went to Orange County, claiming to police that the abuse had actually started earlier, before he turned 16 (without providing any dates/times/locations of offence). I’m sure they hated that their boy turned out to be apparently “queer”. I have to admit that I have at least some respect for the absconders who choose not to put up with this BS, but I guess I’m still no Jean Valjean.
I was ordered to pay restitution but after 30 some odd years, have never had to pay a dime as no one ever came up with any amount or justification for any money. No counseling for accuser, they did not even show up for any of my 9 court hearings.
That should have been my flag to go to trial since they would have probably refused to show up or finally changed their story and told the truth, not half the truth ( Some of the accusations were true, we did have consensual play although no intercourse ) However the prosecutor , after I made a plea penciled in something about attempted intercourse that was nowhere in any police reports or accusations and didn’t happen. I only was made aware of that after I was sentenced. My lawyer never even brought it up.
I have lost all respect for the courts in most cases other than the appeals judge who finally heard part of my case and threw out the remaining 10 years of my probation based on “Problems with how the entire case was handled “
Good Day To All!
So…After dropping off a colleague of mine at ‘his friends house’, not knowing it was a sex sting operation hosted by Elmer Fudd of Polk County, I could not get out of the housing compound…so I went to the house to see the whereabouts of my friend.. and was physically thrown on the ground and the rest is history, while Grady Judd, was there eating Outback’s Blooming’ Onion….and I was royally screwed over by the entire system, even my attorney, who is DEAD…BARRY COHEN, who is the biggest Loser ever as an attorney, sold my soul….I hope he rots in HELL…or stays in Purgatory for life near those fires of hell…they sold me to the tune of $137K in legal fees…so who FCKED WHO?….never had a speeding ticket prior to this HELL….
Wait… What difference would it have made if we didn’t take plea deals? Fighting a sex charge is difficult, guilty or not guilty. And any jury would have crucified us. Then, after whatever length of prison term we’d have gotten after a trial, we’d still be subjected to register as sex offenders upon release which means we’d still be dealing with this bullshit. Plea or no plea. So what’s the point of this question?
Actually for many of us, a jury trial would have meant a far better outcome. Many cases, like mine, were entrapment cases or cases that lacked evidence or their word against mine. Juries rule on evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt but because we were so quickly shamed and scared to death we got talked into copping a plea. Why? Because a guilty plea is a win for the State and that’s why the question mattters. I speak for many that say had they refused the plea and allowed a jury to decided I woudn’t even be in this mess. Also the question mattes because in their pushing for us to accept the plea things were promised that they knew they would not have to legally comply with – in essence we were lied to by the State in an effort to force us to accept a plea for a case that they knew they would have a hard time winning in front of jury. And yes, that’s a problem. If degendents can no longer trust the State when in comes to a plea deal that creates a huge problem for the entire justice system.
I agree, my attorney got the charges reduced from 10 felony counts to 4 that they were a no win scenario. If I had fought it they would came at me full force in court and had a field day burying me under the jail so to speak. I was sentenced to 13 mos instead of 5-10 years. I got out and saved my home and my marriage. Even as success full as I have become I am still reminded regularly i’m still on this registry for life till something changes.
NOT SO FAST. 90% of my charges were BS. I was in my 20s at the time and could not afford a trial lawyer and was NEVER offered a public defender. After running me out of money, my attorney and the judge never mentioned I could get a free public defender and only found that out after I plead guilty to everything (It was an all or nothing deal) either plead guilty and throw myself on the mercy of the court, or face 50 years in prison.
I would have been 100000000000% better off going to trial I can tell you. I even passed 2 different polygraphs and the prosecutor said “That just means you have no conscience”.
So please do not put a blanket ONE stop shopping deal for all of us. My issue was money. If I had , had the funds to get a decent representation, I would have plead to the one charge I was guilty of and gotten maybe 5 years probation and been done well before they came out with the registry. The accusations against me are from 1991 but was still on probation when the 1997 law passed as they did not exclude people who were already sentenced and still on probation, prison, parole or house arrest.
True anything could have happen in a trial but generally the accusers do not want to be in the court room, mine didn’t even show up for any of the 9 hearings I had. And most would rather you take a plea than have to hear the accusations in front of other people.
After running me out of money, my attorney and the judge never mentioned I could get a free public defender
“If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed to you” Is part of the Miranda rights when you’re arrested.
As for what I asked, I still don’t see how going to trial would have stopped any of us from having to register. It doesn’t matter if we got hung for 5 yrs or 50 yrs by a jury, we’d STILL HAVE TO REGISTER as sex offenders upon our release from prison. And since many people on the registry have offenses that date back to the 1970’s, it doesn’t matter if they took a plea or not. It’s the charge and conviction that gets us on the registry.
Now here’s another thing about the registry… in MY case, the judge asked the prosecutor “Will this require sex offender registry?” And the prosecutor said “Oh yes!” And therefore the judge ORDERED that i register for 10 yrs. That means (if you want to really dig at these asswipes) that the registry was part of my sentence. Now that I am off the registry after serving my 10 yrs which I was SENTENCED to serve on it, moving to another state and being FORCED back on it with or without a court hearing IS DOUBLE JEOPARDY. It’s technically being RE-SENTENCED and we need to fight the system on this one.
To hell with their language of “if it is a qualifying offense”… no! We severed the time that was ordered by a judge and we finished it. So let it remain finished.
Not so, those still on paper after 1997 have to register. My charge was from 1991. If I had at least gotten the 5 years probation I would have been done before the 1997 cut off.
Unless they changed it again of which I am not aware.
And yes there is no guarantee I wouldn’t have gotten even a longer sentence but I will tell you, at least with a trial you can appeal, once you take a plea , in the Words of the late great Willy Wonka “Sir, you get NOTHING ! ”
Who knows, maybe I over dosed on Nyquil or something and am out of my mind.
Jack when the registry started July 1995 anyone on on parole or probation at that time had to Register, I was 1 of the very first so to speak member of the new club would like to have private chat with you, sometime, my charge Pasco, 91 as well
It sucks but all we can do it pray, hope and stand behind those who are going to bat for us. Since I no longer am able to work due to an injury, I have zero funds and had to move back with my parents. Tried to get disability but most attorneys will not take your case if you are on the registry, stating the judge will look at the charge as a disqualification. Having said that, I have been going through the appeals process on my own. Would rather get a no than to have not tried at all.
Question
what state required you to rejoin the club
after you was released from another states membership
you served your time,
when you get released all public sites and identifiers are suppose to be removed from public eye, unfortunately there is a data base for LEs, to see where and If you WAS registered Florida is 1 of them, #experenced
My accuser didnt show up either. In fact her, her bf, and his son all ignored her because they knew it was all bs and they fear the law/courts bc of past xps.
The endless expansion of registration requirements coupled with aggressive state sponsored character assassination in a hyper digital age has definitely had an impact on my life! I’ve NEVER been convicted of crime or been to prison but being on the registry has truly altered my life negatively in ways I could haver never imagined. And with no end in sight……….
So what you are saying is you plead guilty? The only 2 ways you would be on the registry is either you were found guilty or you plead guilty. I am confused by your statement.
And yes, all of the 1000s of men and women on the registry in Florida and their families are convicted in the public eye, every single day we wake up still being listed on the Nazi list of shame.
This was never part of any of our plea deals or even if we were or were not convicted of anything, this was an “Add on” after the fact. This should be illegal since we are not allowed to change our pleas but the state.,government etc can wave a magic wand and say “Make it so” and WHAM we are on a list of shame for life with no “Real” chance of being removed.
Even if we make it to the 25 years mark when we are 100 years old, that is not an automatic thing. You have to hire an expensive lawyer and fight with the state’s defense and hope to God you get a reasonable judge.
As we all know, two people with the exact same charges can go before two different judges and one can give you 5 years probation and another can give you 10 years in prison.
@CherokeeJack – When a Florida judge withholds adjudication (as was done in my case), the defendant is sentenced, but not convicted, by the court. So, one can still vote and can own a firearm after being released by DOC (after prison and/or probation). That may be what Douglas is saying above. 20 years ago, Nevada and a few other states told me that I wouldn’t have to register if I moved there, since I wasn’t convicted of anything. They didn’t realize that the tricky 943.0345 Florida statute defines “conviction” as being found guilty, pleading guilty, or pleading no contest (also my case) whether or not adjudication was withheld, just so they can use the word “conviction” within that statute. That statute could have just as easily used a word like “registrable”. In fact there are lots of RC’s in Florida, like myself, who have never been convicted.
More legislative word play and work arounds to thwart law and justice. I believe most prosecutors believe in “Whatever it takes to get a conviction” even if they have to be devious.
When I was being interrogated after my arrest, on three different times I asked for a lawyer. I was basically told if I got a lawyer officers would raid my parents house ( I didn’t even live with my parents then ) and ruin their lives. Also go to the news and call me all sorts of horrible things. ( Mind you, I hadn’t even been to court or formally charged with anything at that point ). They had a page of 21 items I had to check off and agree to or else they would stop the interview and go do a news conference. On the other hand, if I just signed the paperwork, I would be taken to jail immediately and hopefully be able to bond out and be to work in time.
Although the mind melder kept his word, that basically F-ugged me. To get away from him and his Nazi interrogation I would have at that point let him cut my liver our to be let go. It was that bad. I would have signed a letter saying I personally Shot JFK , and caused the twin towers to fall to get away from this piece of crap.
In this police investigators eyes, there was no such thing as an innocent person and be bragged that he had a 97% success rate and the 3% of the case he lost, the people just paid their way out with expensive lawyers.
The justice system is broken. I thought over the years things would get better with human rights etc but as we all know, law makers do not believe we are human, we are forever in their eyes a sub class of citizen sex offenders. All thrown into the same category. Regardless if you mooned a passing car or killed a raped 10 kids, all are the same to them and they have and will continue to pour Trillions of dollars of tax payer money to make sure of that.
I have made my peace with God that I do not see in my time left on this Earth that any of us are getting off that list any time soon. Even in cases where things have been ruled unconstitutional, they either ignore the ruling, appeal it or “Rewrite” the law so it is more appealing to the judge yet still restricts accused / convicted offenders.
Back when I was arrested, prisoners were only doing 40% of their time due to over crowding. Then it shot up to 85% and they are budgeting new money to build mega prisons in hopes of all offenders serving very long sentences, even for simple crimes like leaving the scene of an accident with injury.
I most certainly would NOT have done so as I was innocent and I was already compromising myself taking a plea. However, we all know that since those labelled as “sex offenders” who are sentenced to prison are not going to have a smooth time and might very well leave in a body bag – we really are given NO CHOICE but to pick self-preservation!
Having said that – I would still have NOT taken a plea if I knew that the government can (and does) violate the terms that were agreed upon ANYTIME they please – however – should we do the same we have committed a felony and will end up locked up (and possible dead)!
Justice in America? Not my America! Not the REAL America!
This is just wrong! We need to take back America from parasites like Senator Lauren Book who collect a paycheck for abusing the very Constitution that they swore to uphold and honor – Bullshit!
Let’s rephrase the question. Would you have taken a plea agreement had you know that the local, state and federal governments could initiate harsher punishment under the guise of civil actions, which are for life, harsher than the law allows for said criminal prosecution, and initialially giving up all of you Constitutional Rights to seek relief???
I concur. If we knew then what we know now, I do believe at least 75% or higher would have somehow come up with the money to go to trial knowing we were headed for basically a life sentence of heartache and hardships.
When I first was on probation, it was pretty easy to get a job, even with a sex crime (I was even a manager of a large corporate store)
Once the registries got worse and worse, I couldn’t even find a job cleaning the rear ends of horses in a stable, or picking the noses of Irish fishermen on the docks for a few pennies.
No I would not have. I also was tricked into CRD rules that were not given to me until the day I was being released. Cities and Counties are increasingly adding restrictions that is harder and harder to be able to live any kind of a normal life. I have a business that houses Sex Offenders in Orange County and see the hardship that the newly released offenders are facing.
Hey Ron, there is a guy who use to live in your park that was very sick. Me and a few others were helping him on occasion and then he just disappeared. We think he may have died due to his health issues.
Just for some closure, can you verify if he died? His name was Bert Real. He is no longer on the registry. Not asking for any other information just if he passed away as it would give a few people some closure knowing he is not in pain any more.
If not I understand. I think the only other family he had was an elderly mother.
No way!
(BTW, I’ve been trying to join for the last few weeks but your site won’t take my info and money. You have my email address. Can you contact me to help get this done. I want to put my money where my mouth is.)
Absolutely! This is the type of comment we like to get!
Unfortunately the courts don’t really care about us. They certainly aren’t interested in what’s fair or right or even decent. If the courts where comprised of decent human beings and not politically motivated persons, we might have a chance at fairness. However, as of late, I don’t see that. I hope I’m wrong. I’d like nothing better then to be wrong. Guess we’ll just have to wait and see.
I have to say that for many judges that is the case and is the reason why in Florida especially, we seem to be having a hard time getting our “day in court.” But the good news is we are on the right side of the law* and they can’t ignore us forever and because of those two things what we need to happen WILL happen. Therefore the only question is WHEN, not if.
*One of the foundational pillars of the American Justice System is the ex post facto clause which states that you cannot continue to PUNISH people AFTER the fact, ie after a case which has been adjudicated, sentenced and closed. Since the sex offender scheme though hiding in the civil regulatory code is so obviously punishment to any rational human being – it’s all about the time it is taking to get a judge that matters to rule the obvious. Our ultimate goal is for the US Supreme Court to rule the Sex Offender Laws in the United States as punishment – but they have to agree to hear the right damn case first and because they’ve already heard and judged the Smith vs. Doe case in 2002 in which they’ve already answered that exact question, it’s taking some time to position ourselves and the Court to hear the same issue again.
It’s as if we asked the court in Roe v. Wade “is abortion legal” and the Supreme Court said ‘Yes.” Then, 10 years later another case comes to the court and says, hey Court is abortion legal? And the Court says, we already said yes so we’re not even going to hear your new case. That’s exactly what is happening with our issue. it’s also why many of us have learned to despise the Smith v. Doe case with a hot passion. It was simply too weak and too soon to bring such a case to the Supreme Court. Even then there were other states besides Alaska whose laws were much harsher and law experts everywhere were predicting laws to become worse not better. They should have waited and they didn’t and it messed things up for all of us. It’s always we FAC warns people not to bring frivolous cases, weak cases or cases with lawyers who don’t know what they ‘re doing. It can have a hugely negative impact on all of us should the case not go our way and this has happened many times including Smith v Doe.
THE GOOD news is, IF they agree to hear it again, SO much has been added to the registry requirements since that last hearing that , that in and of itself should be enough to make it a “Different” case.
If I say “Hey Jimmy can you mow my front yard for $20″ then later say ” Oh you were supposed to mow the back also and will not pay you the $20 until you do that too” is changing the rules and it dishonest. That is basically what happened to all of us. We cooperated like good little boys and girls and then got bent over by everyone from our lawyers, the judge, the courts, the prosecutor and the law makers.
It is ok for them to lie because we are the scum of the Earth to them so the laws and rules do not apply to sex offenders and we have to just lay down and take it.
Most judges do not want to be known as going easy on the registry rats so they either rule against us or send it off for further review, which means the file goes in the bottom of the stack in the basement of the Kremlin.
Since I use to work in Law enforcement, I can tell you how much cops lie to make a case. One of numerous reasons I left. You are basically guilty until you can hire a good enough lawyer to prove otherwise then good luck getting restitution for the failed investigation that was weighted on but nothing more than a dishonest cop. Who is the jury going to believe. Someone accused of a sex crime or a decorated detective who has cleared 1000s of cases.
One of those dirty cops I worked with, went on to become a police chief at another smaller department for a few years before retiring.
The sad part is if most of us hadn’t taken a plea we’d still be in prison today.. Iv never understood how taking a plea deal suddenly makes you less dangerous.. For example, Take a deal and get probation for a couple of years. Loose to a Jury and get 25 years. That’s a pretty powerful example to me of just how bad a prosecutor wants to win..
I tried to go back and retract my plea stating I had new evidence(the only way you can go back to court if the statue of limitations runs out). Courts denied me.
Now with this evidence that we in fact had no say in the matter and is after the fact should be enough but they keep saying it is not punishment. Well then why do we go to jail for not giving an email, or for taking our Grandkid to the Park.
And how come some registrants NOT on probation have to pay a registration fee? ( I heard that if that holds water in the courts, every sheriff’s office is going to start doing that ). If it gets struck down, do those people get a refund?
Just have to love the double standards held by law enforcement, the courts, judges and law makers. We all know if any of the above had a child arrested for a sex crime of any nature, they would do everything in their power to either get it squashed or keep them off the registry. Could you imagine a police chief with a kid on the registry?
It may somehow matter legally but I didn’t take any plea, exhausted the apellate process, moved to Florida, served the 10 year sentence to hell on registry & been constantly shuffled from every stable home I have had, less the current one, by Florida Redneck Politicians & local boards of idiodicy. I took no plea but am stuck in the same Hell. Once the label is applied, not much else will ever matter. Dumbass Fl. Legislators & lobyists will ensure we have an unnavigable miine field to always prevent social reinegration or stability. Perverted justice cares not of Constitutional, civil or even basic human rights. I am a Veteran, Federal Civil Servant & hold a Public Trust Position in the Federal Government but a dog is allowed in an emergency shelter during a hurricane & I am left to my own without. I don’t ferl that this outrage deserves any further deleniation. I wish Thomas Jefferson were reincarnated for these people to deal with!
At least you would know where they live now just tell them no for residency tell them which street to be from what time to what time the country has ones on for urinating in public so stay along street under bridges where u think they urinate at beside no one ever says that the crime happens between 7 pm and 7 am or 10 pm to 6 am nothing about happening at schools daycare parks play grounds how many government officials did sex crime and nothing done to them no prision no registery they live at home go on with there business
Keep in mind that this survey tends not to capture (or under-counts) those who committed their offenses within the past decade. Many such people— future FAC members— remain under judicial sanction, including internet restrictions, and have been unable to respond to to this survey unless their loved ones have done so.
This matters because by the time THEY pled— and even by 2006, the passage of AWA— it was quite clear what sort of beast the registry was. But they went ahead and pled anyway, as there seemed to be no viable alternative. This is particularly true of computer crimes, which tend to be more recent and which are so easy for the government to prove (and to coerce a plea).
Speaking to that ,
I am amazed that some people who actually physically harmed a child in a sex act, got less time than some of the internet sting accused where no real person was actually harmed.
At the time I took a plea it was only so I could get this event behind me and move on with my life and the life of my family. My daughter was already in Michigan staying with her aunt and uncle. I was staying in a motel because I could not live in my Virginia Beach home due to a ‘friend’s’ daughters staying with her there. Her daughters had already made a swore statement that I have never bothered them. I was tired of disrupting family and friend live’s and I just wanted to ‘take my medicine’ so we could all move on. I knew I would be on the Virginia registry for a time but did not know what that meant. Since moving to Florida I am no longer on the Virginia registry. My move to Florida was to help my mother with my dad. At the time the impact of the Florida registry was of no concern. I had no idea that Florida’s policy was of no forgiveness. However, I built my retirement home and made the decision that no ‘two-bit’ politician is going to run me out. I didn’t serve in the Navy for 29 years to receive such treatment. My daughter, the victim, has moved to Florida and we get along just fine…as most families would if the politicians would just get their nose out of where it doesn’t belong.
If there truly were some rational people in office, and we didn’t have so many different entities creating so many different changes of their own to these laws, than we might actually have some form of stable registration requirements. However our country allows way to many people to make changes including our own Federal government, that we may never face a single standard of requirements, and most likely never any relief. Humanity can and will shows just how cruel they can actually be, all while hiding under some form or another to make it appear ritous and virtue. Only true humans worth their grain of salt, can show any real signs of compassion and intelligence in matters such as these. Unfortunately our world is becoming overrun by the unritouse and cruel, who play themselves off as helpful saviors.
Add to that local cities etc that make up their own “Added” and additional rules about where you can live, If anywhere, in “Their” city. No going to parks, schools, playgrounds. I am surprised we are not banned from walmart since they have a toy section and we might all lurk around there to kidnap an unsuspecting child even.
Also we are all thrown into one box. Some homeless guy who peed in pubic and got an exposure charge is basically viewed on the registry by the viewing public as the same as John Wayne Gacy would have been if he were on the registry ( He raped and killed over 33 kids that they know of ). Sorry that is just the worst offender I could think of.
No. When I took a plea, my lawyer did not explain anything about the registry or community supervision. Prison is bad, and you expect that the harshness will end when you pay your debt to society, but with the registry and community supervision, life just keeps getting harder and harder.
What doesn’t make any sense is, many of us took a plea YEARS before the registry even existed. It would be one thing if the registry existed when we went to court but how do you apply it onto citizens who already cooperated with the courts?
AND who the Hell cares if it is punishment. It sill shouldn’t be retroactive. I remember when I was 19 and they raised the drinking age to 21, guess what, we still got to drink. They did not make it retro active.