For those who didn’t watch the Senate Judiciary Meeting today, SB234 made it through. Senator Book gave her pitch, never mentioning the change in definition to “part of a day” and NOBODY showed up to oppose it. The next stop is the Senate Rules Committee and we NEED, NEED, NEED people to show up to speak out in opposition. We MUST put our objections on the record.
Anybody in or near Tallahassee who would be willing to speak out against this bill, please contact [email protected]. We need to do a better job at the next stop.
I live in Tallahassee, but I can’t risk being on TV for something like this. People know me here and there’s the whole “keeping my job” thing. Too bad FAC isn’t in Tallahassee where the action is most of the time.
Well it’s set for March 4 according to the websitep
SB 234 is scheduled to be heard in the Rules Committee at 9:00-11:00 A.M. on Thursday March 4. The committee’s agenda was posted just 3 hours ago.
https://flsenate.gov/Committees/Show/RC/ExpandedAgenda/5086
Thanks to Duval FAC Member for the catch.
ANY member of the public can read our statement into the record. They do not need to be an attorney or professional spokesperson.
I can find no Tallahassee nor Leon County restrictions on registered persons other than state law. So a registered person or persons could appear for a statement, but I think the issue is credibility.
Given that registered persons were the first to get doxed and cancelled by society, our words carry little weight, in my opinion.
@JZ: So who then is representing our interests in this matter? When issues like this come up and we need a credible spokesperson, how can we rectify that?
@Ben, those are questions I cannot factually answer. I defer them to FAC Admin.
Why are we taught to fear witches, and not the ones who burn them alive?!!
FAC…
The Bottom Line, is that FAC needs Attorneys to Speak Directly to Those!
A Person Forced to Register, Speaking, WILL NOT CUT THE MUSTARD!
,
There are 2000 plus members…let each of us put in a $1, I am sure We can find someone…..two thousand bucks for a Legal Eagles Time!
Why pay an attorney to read a statement that any one of us could read for free.
Why would you say “in or near Tallahassee?” I think you need anyone that can afford the trip. Also, when does this happen?
I ask this because I have been on the registry more than 10 years, and have been discriminated by many who I have to show my license to. Once when I had a simple blood test done, I was left with a bruise on my entire forearm.i cant prove it, but it is something I’ve not heard talked about. I would gladly speak at this event if given a date. I live in hernando county.
@James: It appears to be on or about March 2, 2021, but there is no guarantee it will happen on that date. That’s when Florida Senate is back in session.
Jed:
Apparently you didn’t read Albertson. The U.S. Supreme Court in Smith v Doe ruled that the registry is not punishment. No where did it say that you are required to sign a form. That was one of the core issues in Albertson. The U.S. Supreme Court in Albertson ruled that they cannot force you to sign a registration form so this matter is settled. Also, state agencies (like the police or DOC) are required to abide by fundamental principles of liberty and justice. Hebert v Louisiana, 272 US 312 at 316.
Sex offender registries are a new phenomenon. There is not old case law that addresses sex offender registries (except, perhaps California which has had a sex offender registry since 1947). So you have to study old case law where the government forced people to register (like the Voorhis or Smith Acts) and apply it to the sex offender registry. The U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled that they cannot force you to sign these forms (Alberson v SACB, 382 US 70, 1965). Registrants already have the law on their side. It’s up to them to enforce it.
I remain, anyone who signs these forms is a fool.
OffenderWatch’s registration software requires you to sign multiple times. If you don’t sign, you don’t complete registration, exposing you to arrest for failure to register. That’s how it works in many Florida counties. And one arrest re-sets the clock on one’s ability to petition for removal.
Refusing to sign your registration, just on principle, is foolish. If you have a family to support, it is not only foolish but selfish.
Based on legal precedent, perhaps registrants could sue to have signatures removed from registration. But that would not be as impactful as other challenges we have going.
Jacob
Also, I always get a reciept of registration. My filing cabinet has every registration paperwork going back to 1997 when the registry started in Florida. I sometimes look at the photo on the paperwork from 1997 and wish I still had as much hair on my head as back then. Stress is Hell on your health.
Speaking of clemency, I can find no numbers of clemencies granted for registrants nor number of registrants who had their civil rights restored in Floriduh.
Has FAC ever been able to get these numbers? I remember the topic came up a few years back.
My hunch is they are nearly zero. I need to weigh the time and odds of clemency or moving before I get too old to move.
@JZ: Funny, too, because usually an attorney can give some kind of odds or level of optimism/pessimism, and mine gave me none. $10,000 though. Apparently I got the cream of the crop, so we’ll see what happens when my name comes up maybe this decade.
Jed:
I stand by my comments that any one who signs these registration forms is a fool.
The problem with registrants is they want to get a court to issue an order in their favor without taking the risk of imprisonment. They keep registering and complaining rather than confronting the beast.
Read Wallace v State, 905 NE2d 371 (IN Sup Ct, 2009). They tried to force Wallace to register and he refused. He demanded a jury trial, lost and was sentenced to prison. He appealed his case all of the way to the Indiana Supreme Court and won. He is not on the registry today because he confronted the state head on and demanded a jury trial. Yes, he did go to prison but he has been off of the registry since 2009. The reason that registrants register is because of their fear of imprisonment.
Rest assured, I stand by my assertion that anyone who signs these forms is a fool. I have the case law to back that up. The government can require you to register as part of a regulatory scheme aimed at the public in general. Grosso v US, 390 US 62 (1968). This is what allows the government to compel you to file income taxes and to register a business. However, the government cannot force “a highly suspect group inherently suspect of criminal activities” to register. Albertson v SACB, 382 US 70 at 79 (1965). Do I know if this applies to sex offender registration? I do not. But rest assured, if they were to force me to register I would have an answer because I would refuse to register. As long as people keep registering, they won’t have an answer either.
You can keep registering which means you have surrendered or be like Wallace and face the beast head on. This is not “nonsense in Florida” because the U.S. Constitution is applicable to Florida residents as it is applicable to all. I am not getting registrants in “trouble” and “arrested” for asserting their rights. More than 1 million people act like lambs being let to slaughter by choosing to comply with what is patently an unconstitutional scheme. If you are on the registry and choose not to assert your constitutional rights, you have your “reasons” and that is your choice. I cannot dictate to you how to live your life. Wallace made his decision to choose not to surrender to such asinine laws and lives his life on his own terms because he confronted these laws head on. If a person chooses to live under the thumb of an arbitrary government official, that is their choice.
Another factor you don’t take into consideration is that when persons demand a jury trial that prosecutors frequently drop the case, i.e., the Burger King guy. If he pled guilty he could have gone to jail or prison. He stood his ground and his case was dismissed. The prosecutor had to consider, “am I going to take this guy to a jury for eating breakfast within 1,000 feet of a tennis court?”. This is why we have juries. You have to ask yourself, “will a jury send me to prison for not signing a paper?”. You read about everyone sent to jail or prison who pled guilty to a technical violation but never read about all of the cases dismissed because registrants demanded a jury trial. This is because prosecutors don’t want the whole idiocy of these laws to be presented to a jury and especially don’t want an acquittal to be reported in the news.
I am not directing any venom towards you or your comment. On the contrary, I appreciate you taking the time to express your opinion. On this matter, you and I rest at opposite ends of the spectrum.
I have put forth the reasons why I believe that the law is on registrant’s side. If you have any case law that says it is constitutional to force registrants to sign a form and back that force up with criminal sanctions, I want to see that case law. Without such case law, I cannot respond to your comments.
You already have the highest authority of case law. The supreme court has ruled the registry legal as non punitive, and nothing more than signing up for a price club. (Judge Roberts I believe said this) If you do not sign that form, you will be arrested as not registering, a third degree felony and spend 5 years in prison with probation of probably 10 years to follow.
If you are an RSO in Florida and take a case to the jury, you have already shot yourself in the foot, as jurors are conditioned to think registrants are vile pariahs of society. That is why you will read registrants that took their cases to jurors on this blog got far more time that those who took the plea bargains.
I admire your and will to fight, but as you are not a registrant, you cannot understand the immense pressure LE places on registrants to conform or be arrested and jailed, especially at ground zero for registrants, which is Florida.
Jed
Just funny the Supremes music group ruled it not punitive but many judge in different states HAVE ruled parts of it punishment. These condridictions are why so many laywers have to take heart medication.
If you don’t sign the registration forms, then you have failed to register, a felony that you must then explain to your family who depends on you.
Detroit
You are under the assumption that if you follow that persons actions, you will get the same results. You will not get the same judge (Most likely) and even if you did, the is zero guarantee you will get the same ruling.
Case law is great but that is NO guarantee you will win. We each have to walk our own walk. I do not judge you for not signing and applaud you for the cojones to take a stand. But not all of us who obey the rules are whimpy sheep.
I put my family through Hell and when I lay my head on the pillow each night, I thank the good Lord for another day I am not in prison. I stay off the radar and pretty much get left alone. I get one visit to my house per year and have to visit the Nazi registration dungeon 4 times a year. Other than that, I go about my life like any other citizen.
FAC, do FL Senate committees not incorporate zooming during covid? Other states do.
Jacob – that’s an excellent question. I’m going to send this to legislative to inquire.
Jacob
Touche’ !
We got the information:
You must be physically in Tallahassee to testify. For House hearings it is in the committee hearing room or an overflow room if necessary. And for the Senate you testify via video from the civic center.
@FAC: if I were not waiting on a clemency board hearing I would have already been all over this for everyone. There has to be someone else in Tallahassee that can do this.
Dustin:
I believe you have a great idea. I looked up the SMART grants, in 2020 Washington County received $150,000, one item they listed was for the “investigation of sex crimes” which I don’t believe is an allowable use for their funds. In 2020, Liberty County received $57,200 for “compliance checks” which may be improper and travel to SMART sponsored conferences (this is a popular slush idea for paid vacations to Hawaii. It would be nice to know if they have a SMART sponsored event in Cancun hosted by Ted Cruz). In 2020, Santa Rosa county received $150,000 and listed “fringe” (cops beer, pizza and donut money). In 2019, Flagler County received $150,000 for a “staff position dedicated to sex offender registration”. They’re supposed to be doing that anyways, so it is doubtful if this is allowable.
Another good thing with this info is you can learn what they are up to. For example, in 2020 Washington County listed “retrieval of cellular and social media data” of sex offenders which means in 2021 they will be monitoring registrants cellular use and social media communications (the constitutionality of which is quite dubious).
Such an effort would require significant use of FOIA and a deep dive into the CFR. If a registrant has the time to audit these grants, I certainly would encourage them to do so.
Thanks Dustin.
@ Detroit: A little transparency would go a long way. I wonder what digging into Miami would tell us…? Brevard..?
FAC – Please read the posts – Whoever is doing the moderation, somehow there seems to be a miscommunication, I personally have asked this question about getting someone there to speak concerning Bill 234.
And we keep getting this answer.
“Florida Action Committee on February 18, 2021 at 10:07 am
It’s more than that. Things get snuck on the agenda last minute and we may not know from one day to the next whether something will be heard.”
The answer I sent back was
“True I understand that, that happens. but what about those FAC knows about?
Would it not be better to at least be there for that? What is the that Bill 234, you said it goes before the Rules committee next.
Do you know the date? The time?
Forget this stuff about snuck on the agenda last minute and we may not know from one day to the next whether something will be heard.” Unless it’s that they would do that to Bill 234.
Is the Bill234 going before the Rules Committee?
I am a bit confused, as the reason that no one could not go from FAC was funding. I have offered to fund part of it, and lets see if there are some others who may be willing.
Help me out here”
It’s not a funding issue, to my knowledge.
@Jacob: It would be a funding issue if FAC were paying someone to be there and/or if FAC drove up to Tally to be there for an unspecified number of days to make a statement. Hopefully the matter can be solved via Zoom.
The figures that I am reading is that Florida has 74,000 people on the registry, this includes the dead, out of state registrants and a certain non-cooperating registrant in Nebraska. They post 30,000 registrants who are in Florida and non-incarcerated. It would be nice if there was some way of accurately verifying these numbers.
Jacob brings up a good point. If there are 500 registrants in Tally metro and you can’t get one person to speak, you have a problem. An office in Tally is out until sufficient funds are raised. A good option is to pay an attorney in Tally until FAC opens an office.
FAC has already stated how rushed this was and how little notice there was for this hearing. It is clear that they are trying to rush this bill through with as little debate as possible. The most important thing is to be prepared for the next bill.
It will probably be several years before FAC will be able to open an office in Tally. As they make these laws more and more burdensome, I believe participation and donations will increase. It’s only a matter of time until sufficient funds come in where they can begin to discuss opening an office in Tally.
Right – can ONE (1) person in tally chime in?
Detroit
I will be glad when FAC goes out of business. HERE ME OUT!
The registry should NOT exist. The only reason there IS an FAC is because their IS a registry. If we could get it ruled unconstitutional, I am sure FAC would be happy to disband. That is, unless they want to convert to help future released offenders.
All these other states are winning victories against the registries. I think it would make more sense to band together and do a nationwide class action representing ALL on the registries nationwide.
Many ex offenders will be dead before we see relief. Why even call us ex offenders since we are treated like we are one step away from dragging victims into alleys when no one is looking.
Honestly, would it make a difference if a registered citizen showed up to oppose this or any other bill? When is the last time we stopped a bill from becoming law?
Given the travel restrictions, reporting requirements, and proximity restrictions, it would be much better, in my opinion, to hire an attorney to speak for us. At the least a non-registrant who can travel unencumbered.
You are forgetting we need to pay this person.
FAC:
There are about 30,000 registrants on the registry. Half are in the state. If we all ponied a dollar, that would be $15,000 toward someone speaking.
Ben,
That’s a wonderful theory if it worked in practice. This isn’t our first rodeo trying to raise funds for something.
Oh… and there are more than 70,000 (seventy thousand) registrants in Florida!
why pay someone to speak when it just takes one volunteer to prepare the statement plus another to read it into the record
Even better. Let’s try and get that one dollar from everyone.
Of which over 40,000 are either dead, incarcerated, or not in the state.
I still argue that we should be hollaring at SMART to audit the funds they give to Florida.
“Again, it is NOT about Funding”
Your words, not mine.
It’s not about funding, because you don’t have to pay to read a statement to a committee in a hearing.
It really doesn’t matter WHO reads it into the record, amirite?
So why not just go and do it for free?
Someone just needs to be available to do it.
If we fail to do this, then one argument they can make in court is, “nobody objected!” Right?
1000%
It don’t matter if the person reading it into the record is registered. The statement just needs to be read into the record by someone, for the reason outlined above.
Just to recap.
I recognize that people have a variety of reasons they can’t be there. But being a registrant in itself shouldn’t hold someone back. You get your three minutes, you read the statement into the record, you thank them, they thank you, you walk out.
It would be hard for anyone to argue that our position here lacks credibility. Harder still, if we have to take them to court after warning them.
FAC,
You have said, “The next stop is the Senate Rules Committee and we NEED, NEED, NEED people to show up to speak out in opposition. We MUST put our objections on the record.”
I have asked is there someone in Leadership who has clout who could speak.
I have asked is it funding, if so I would help fund the trip, I have asked what would it take to send someone. Transportation, food, hotel?? But all I got back was
“Florida Action Committee on February 18, 2021 at 10:07 am
It’s more than that. Things get snuck on the agenda last minute and we may not know from one day to the next whether something will be heard.”
The answer I sent back was
“True I understand that, that happens. but what about those FAC knows about?
Would it not be better to at least be there for that?
I am a bit confused, as the reason that no one could not go from FAC was funding.
Help me out here”
Somewhere in these post I read it was funds. So Here I am asking ok how much. “Lets put it out there and see if we can get it done.
I have seen a lot of wasted hurtful words in these posts concerning this. Including some of mine I am sure.
But please don’t put out a call like that and not look even at the possibility.
As I wrote someone at FAC today privately. Concerning these posts and the responses. I support FAC in the ways I can, FAC is important to us. The Cases we have are important. “But as an old sailor in the Navy, and privately. Some times you just got to change course a bit or you got to do a “Come About”, To get to your destination.
I am respectively your
Sailtime
It is not funding. It is finding someone in the area who would step up to appear.
Again, it is NOT about Funding. SOMEONE LIVING IN OR NEAR TALLAHASSEE needs to step up. Nobody has.
FAC
I know you do not want to hear this but believe it is fear. When you speak at one of these things, it is often on the news. In order to speak, as far as I know, you have to state your name. People like myself have been drug through the news enough to know what ithas done to our families and our lives.
I know it sounds bad that we want justice but won’t take a stand. I compare it to the Florida lottery. I do not play because if I won, I would be all over the news and people would come out of the wood work wanting money from me or they will sue me.
Also a reason why so few are in these registry lawsuits. I am surprised they were allowed to be called Does as Florida doesn’t allow you to be anonymous. At least that is what 3 lawyers I spoke to stated and why they couldn’t find anyone to fight the registry for their firms.
I am usually not a scaredy cat, but after having the news show up at my elderly parents house and harassing them, I was ready to commit a crime against those news reporters that would have sent me to Hell and jail.
Over 500 registrants live within five miles of the State Capitol, according to FDLE. What would it take to get just one of them, or one of their family members, to show up?
Of course, I am counting a lot of non-FAC members, plus transients, while overlooking others in the Tally area. But FAC Membership Committee, I assume, has a better handle on local membership.
FAC Membership Committee, do we need to consider a more targeted reach-out to members in the Tally area, similar to what we did in Brevard? Or has something like that already been happening?
We are working on it.
Struggling to understand the implications for a local Tally resident to deliver the statement—
There isn’t actually anything controversial in the statement to be delivered. It does not, for example, defend or minimize sexual offending in any way. Nor does it require one to tell their own personal story if they don’t feel comfortable.
But it DOES identify a mistake in verbiage that could create a costly burden, not only for thousands of families, but for 60 sheriffs offices around the state as well as FDLE. Without a correction, everybody loses.
And even if that were controversial— the purpose is to go on record for the Florida Senate Rules Committee, not to influence the local Tallahassee community. Does ANYONE in Tallahassee locally even follow the proceedings of the Senate Rules Committee? I doubt it, but maybe there’s something I don’t understand about the Tally community.
You won’t be in the news.
99+% of what goes on in a state Senate committee hearing doesn’t make the news.
In particular, Florida’s legal definition of “a day”— the issue in question— is not considered newsworthy by most news outlets, other than FAC.
Is it fear of the news that’s holding us back from appearing in committee? Our aim is not to make a statement for the media, but for lawmaking committee proceedings.
@Jacob:
I’ve been saying for years that FAC needs an office up here in Tallahassee, since this is where most of the action is.
We do have two people in central and south Florida who are willing to drive to Tallahassee to speak and they are registrants, but the problem is that you often do not have enough warning to know what day to be present. We cannot ask these people to make 4- to 6-hour drives, having no idea what day or time the committee is meeting.
That is why it is so important to get someone who lives in or near Tallahassee.
According to the Gainesville Sun, lobbyist are given preferential treatment when it comes to speaking at these committee meetings. Others are given up to 3 minutes but only if there is enough time. Some people only get 30 seconds, while some are given no time at all.
State law requires counties/municipalities to give citizens time to speak, but the legislature does not have to do so. What a double standard! My guess is that many of our legislators do not care to hear what the citizens of Florida have to say.
Media
I am not being an ass but, I say let the bill pass. Then let an emergency order be pitched to the Florida supreme court that FINALLY they have enough ammo to prove this is punishment AND more ex post facto nonsense.
If we can be arrested because we visted our local grocery store for 20 minutes on 4 occasions in a month and did not go in person each time and register that, if that ain’t punitive then my name is John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt.
We’re not in agreement. If it passes we will have to live with it for years until it’s corrected by a court.
FAC
I was saying it figuratively mostly in case it does pass we still have hope. To explain it better, yes these things hurt us, however, the more and more shit they throw at the wall thinking it will stick, their has to be a point at which some eyes open somewhere.
If not, what is keeping them from taking us all to a field and just shooting us in a mass firing squad? I mean that is what many want anyway.
Has a more punitive law EVER improved our position?
Because I see this a lot— “let them make the law more punitive so we can challenge it”— and the logic seems flawed to me.
Jacob
It was satirical
Satire, artistic form, chiefly literary and dramatic, in which human or individual vices, follies, abuses, or shortcomings are held up to censure by means of ridicule, derision, burlesque, irony, parody, caricature, or other methods, sometimes with an intent to inspire social reform. Satire is a protean term.
@FAC: in understanding that fear for a local Tallahassee resident you have to understand that in reality Tallahassee is a very small town. Everyone knows everyone. It would be one thing if someone were coming from anywhere else in the state and going back there but to live here and to make those arguments here would be literally suicide. Pretty much any of the locals are connected to someone here who has business in Tallahassee that could potentially be ruined by such an appearance or has politics in Tallahassee that could also be ruined by such an appearance. My brother has a business up here and he’s very well connected everyone knows him so there is no possible way that I could make such an appearance because it would have such a detrimental impact on his life and his livelihood. so the best thing to do would be to get someone who does not live in Tallahassee to come up and read off of a sheet on that day. Or hire someone who would. Understanding the Dynamics of Tallahassee itself would be the first step in convincing someone to step up to that plate. You’re talking about career ending moves and it should not be that way but it is. Even by proxy. I would love to go and do something like that but I would have to make a hell of a lot of money a year to do that. Not quite a turning money but I wouldn’t be cheap. Even if it was ultimately for my own benefit I would have to be paid quite a hefty sum to do something like that. And I probably could never live in Tallahassee again. Not to mention the bias that I may get because I’m on the waiting list for clemency.
I can understand the fear. I just endured years of hell trying to stand up to the Books when everyone was afraid to stand with me.
Some people in this movement bashed me when the Books filed a bogus restraining order against me, and again when I was falsely accused of theft.
Thankfully there were others who stood beside me and helped me behind the scenes. And I have endured the worst fears people have in this movement. I am not afraid; hell, i would be willing to go but travel to Floriduh from podunk Nebraska is more taxing than travel from Cincinnati to Tallahassee used to be, plus we still have a pandemic to boot.
Back in 2015, when I was putting together the rally in Tallahassee, i sent out hundreds of letters to registrants in the county in hopes of attending. Only one person attended.
Yes it is free to speak but at the same time the only folks willing to do this have to travel to get there so if we cant get someone in Tallahassee, maybe we will have to fund someone willing to travel.
CJ:
Your 2 cents are important. Without participation FAC will wither. ACSOL has the benefit of having several attorneys in key positions. FAC will catch up but in order for this to happen, registrants have to speak up and be a part of the discussion.
Jacob:
I believe your talking about Mr. Williams. He wasn’t arrested under an ambiguous law, he was arrested under an asinine law. He was arrested under a county ordinance that stated he wasn’t allowed to be within 1,000 feet of a tennis court. The ordinance was not ambiguous. It’s no different from living within 1,000 feet of a school.
The problem was and continues to be that registrants keep signing these “registration” forms. Mr. Williams signed both the state and county forms so the prosecutor had “proof” that he knew he was in violation of the ordinance. The police cannot force you to sign anything. I know. I worked for both the military police and the civilian police. I’ve slid rights waiver forms in front of suspects and made it sound like they were required to sign them. The stupid ones signed the forms and the smart ones refused. When they refused we simply wrote “refused to sign” in place of their signature. Some registrants think they are smart by writing “signed under protest”. This is not smart. DO NOT SIGN THESE FORMS!!!
You are correct that Michigan and Florida are two different states with two different policies at the opposite ends of the spectrum. The Michigan State Police have a policy not to arrest registrants on technical violations. Their policy is to identify the suspect, file a police report and allow the prosecutor to decide to seek a warrant or not. In Mr. Williams case he probably would have eaten his breakfast and been long gone even if the Michigan State Police had responded. And if they did respond, all they can do is ask for his ID and file a police report. Another difference is that many police departments in Michigan are loathe to enforce these asinine laws. If you ever make it to Michigan, coral up a Detroit police officer and he will tell you what he thinks of these laws.
The problem that you face is that you are in a state where the police take these laws seriously. Dial 911 in Detroit and tell them that a sex offender is eating breakfast within 1,000 feet of a tennis court. The dispatcher will hang up on you no matter what the law says.
I don’t want to discourage you. If you do not try, you will never succeed. FAC is registrant’s best bet in Florida because they are already organized and starting to get experience. ACSOL is doing well because it’s president is an attorney. It’s just going to take time for FAC to catch up. That’s why I keep pushing everyone to participate. FAC’s success or failure all depends on how much participation they get. A lot of registrants lost faith in FAC after their “loss” in the ex post facto case. FAC didn’t “lose” it’s Ex Post Facto case. They licked their wounds, learned from their mistakes and got back into the fight. I don’t know if the ex post facto issue would have been handled differently if Janice Belluci were the president of FAC. That’s not relevant. You cannot move forward if you keep looking back. The important thing is that FAC is still in the fight. I can understand registrants disappointment in the first ex post facto case. Perhaps, they are justified in some decisions made. But you have to remember that FAC doesn’t have an attorney for it’s president and even attorneys make mistakes in trial preparation and strategy. But to stop donating to FAC is foolish. Florida is a registrant’s worst nightmare and FAC needs all the support they can get in this fight.
FAC is also fairly new. As more people get on board and FAC learns from it’s mistakes the situation in Florida will improve. I know a lot of people have been on Florida’s registry more than 20 years. It’s difficult to say be patient to someone who has been through this for 20 years but I believe most would say that they are finally starting to see change, albeit, slow change. As FAC gains traction, I see good things ahead for Florida’s registrants.
How could one be sure of the 1000 feet? Carry a rangefinder? As the crow flies? As if we could “fly” to the tennis court…
Huge mens rea issue with all these proximity laws, let alone not narrowly tailored but broadly applied to all.
Cj
There is a nasty saying that holds true in court. It goes “Ignorance of the law is no excuse”. I have always thought that was dumb. Like we all carry around a 5 lb book of codes, ordinances, laws, rules etc?
I once got asked to leave a park. I asked why. The park ranger said he ran my tag and saw I was on the registry. I pointed to the sign that said “Park rules” and said, could you show me where on your park rules it says I cannot be here?
He then said if he had to force me to leave, he would place me under arrest for refusing to leave.
CherokeeJack:
I commend you for standing up to the jack boot Gestapo. It’s not worth a night in the pokey though.
I would have to ask what is the rational reason or purpose for such a law? There isn’t one. It’s all political pandering. It directly infringes on 1st and 14th amendment activity and rights.
Federal courts slowly and surely are striking down these “laws” based on constitutional scrutiny but they’re reticent to declare the whole enchilada unlawful.
Does vs Snyder is an exception. Other states have struck down the reach back of SORNA. A couple good cases came out of Tennessee lately.
We’ll get there brick by brick.
Cherokee I like that “Ignorance of the law is no excuse” Seems law has the authority to make up their rules as they go along. Once on the registry out of vain understanding who gives the warning signs.
Are done deals just a plea deal or bargain away or a lifetime of bondage. Good intentions are good but true justice is better for all or should everyone’s tongue be cut out in this lack of wisdom.
The police can not “force you to sign anything”.
I asked if I had to sign the forms or if I could refuse when I registered last time and was told “you can refuse but you will not be registered” so your idea is nonsense here in Florida.
You need to be realistic in your comments and not get registrants in more trouble or arrested if you want to help.
FAC:
You are absolutely right about the ambiquity. What I read was 134 pages and included the pre-existing SORA. There are already several ambiquities in the current statute.
The rule of statutory construction that penal laws are to be strictly construed against the state derives from common law. Florida clearly follows this rule. Carawan v State, 515 So 2d 161 (Fl Sup Ct, 1987); Kasischke v State, 991 So 2d 803 (Fl Sup Ct,2008). This rule is different from the rule of lenity. This distinction is important because the rule of lenity is a rule of last resort. Kasischke is telling. It was a case involving a sex offender. This tells you that sex offenders will get a fair shake with the Florida Supreme Court.
You also have to consider it’s practical application. Will the police actually force you to register your stay at Duncin’ Donuts?
With the current ambiquities in the current statute and the case law, registrants don’t have to worry about not registering Walmarts and I believe they will say no to registering Lauren Book’s house if someone visited her 4 times a year. I am pissed though because you went to Dunkin’ Donuts and didn’t pick me up a Double Chocolate Bomb (I thought we were friends).
A registrant was already arrested for being at Burger King, under an ambiguous law.
We’ve said “the police would never do that” far too many times. We know from experience that if the law gives a Florida sheriff a reason to arrest someone of an unpopular class, they will make the arrest.
Detroit
I boycott dunkin donuts. One evening I went in to get a donut and was surprised how many were left. I ordered one and the gal gave me 2 saying “OH we throw them out anyway”. I asked how I could get some each night if I had proof of my Churches homeless outreach. Maybe we could set something up?
Well what came out of her mouth (Not her fault) flattened me. She said all the shops across America have to toss them for liabilty reasons. She said if someone got sick they could sue. I laughed and advised her I have a degree in criminal justice. I said “So if I got sick from the one I paid for, could I not sue?”
Anyway I hate waste as much as frivilous lawsuits. Everyone either seems to be sue happy or scared of being sued. I know many many places that donate items to homeless shelters. Sadly dunkin is not one of them.
Sailtime:
I have helped out several registrants over the years. I have a registrant who has lived in one of my houses for more than 3 years rent free. He lives in the house that I stay at when I’m dealing with my rental properties. I’ve had a friend on the registry that has since died. I am more than familiar with what registrants go through on a daily basis. Before I placed this registrant in this house I had one of my attorneys contact the police and advise them that under no circumstances are the police to come to this property to do compliance checks because this is my part-time residence. In over 3 years, the police have not come to this house to check on him. His probation officer came by to approve this house and I made it clear to his probation that I don’t tolerate any drama on my properties and won’t tolerate any drama from MDOC either. His probation officer did not come back the whole 2 years he was on probation. I have a registrant in another of my houses. I cut his rent in half because he couldn’t afford $900 per month. He lives in a nice 2 bedroom in a nice neighborhood for only $450 per month. I am not making any money on this house. I know a freeloader when I see one. Unless everyone gets on board fighting the registry then no progress will be made. If riffraff wants to live in a shell and avoid carrying his own weight, that is his choice.
As for registrants not having any money. I sent out over 2,000 letters to registrants in order to get meetings going and received over 100 responses. About 60 to 70% of these registrants had some type of income and several worked more than 1 job. I don’t know their incomes but do know part of the income of one because he is a retired O-5 with 30 years of service. I know what a retired O-5 earns because it is published. He earns $7,140 per month from his military retirement. He also drives 100 miles to Detroit each day. I don’t know what he earns in Detroit but if he is collecting over $85,000 a year in retirement pay, his job in Detroit must pay pretty good. So to say that every registrant is broke is a misstatement of the situation. I understand that 30 to 40% of registrants lack an income, but they can contribute in other ways. Riffraff isn’t brave for speaking out. He is a coward that chooses to hide under a rock and anyone who defends him is a fool.
You failed to read my previous post. I was talking about helping the registrant community in general, not any individual registrant.
Also, I never said that FAC dropped the ball. I appreciate the work that the volunteers of FAC do. I was mentioning an annual rally as an event to draw in more participation. I know Tallahassee is 7 hours from Miami. Derek made it to Tallahassee from Ohio and he doesn’t even own a car. I drove 2,000 miles each way to participate in a protest in Denver. I realize about 1/2 of all registrants don’t have cars. That’s why I suggested rallys in Tampa and Miami as well. The concept of rallys isn’t just to bring your cause to public attention. It brings persons interested in this cause together as a group and gives them a way to participate . These groups tend to expand over time. With this suggestion I am looking at the long-term goal of getting more people to participate.
I believe our difference of opinion boils down to perspective. I was raised in a family that we all have a duty to serve our country. My grandfather fought in the first world war, my dad stepped on a landmine in Korea and one of his brothers also fought in Korea, his oldest brother landed at Normandy on D-Day. Both of my brothers, one of my sisters and myself are all veterans. My son was wounded in Iraq. We were all raised to fight to the last and to defend the values of this country. And one of those values is the freedom to speak ones mind. If you want to call me a fool or an ass, you are free to do so and I won’t get mad at you for it. I may disagree with what you say but will always support your right to speak your mind.
This is one of the reasons that I support what Derek does. I don’t always agree with what he says or does but I respect his courage to put himself out in the front of the fight. His advocacy has cost him a lot of grief and he is currently facing bogus criminal charges in retaliation for his advocacy. What Derek does takes as much courage as any soldier going into battle. What people forget in this fight is that the registry is the greatest assault on personal liberties in the history of our country and it is the duty of every American to remind our leaders of what makes America great. What they are doing to registrants today they can do to my grandchildren and great-grandchildren tomorrow. You are free to defend a coward hiding under a rock. You will learn that in order to obtain victory you must stand behind those that have the courage to fight.
Detroit, below you wrote, “RIFF RAFF:… I, and a lot of other people, are wasting our time trying to help you. If you cannot find the time to help yourself, then I cannot find the time to help you.” When questioned as to whether you had ever made an effort to help him, you defended yourself with, “I was talking about helping the registrant community in general, not any individual registrant,” accusing others of failing to read, preceded just a sentence earlier by the following regarding an individual registrant: “Riffraff isn’t brave for speaking out. He is a coward that chooses to hide under a rock and anyone who defends him is a fool,” in response to his choice not to attend a rally that does not exist.
Do you understand how this comes across?
Further above, you claim that officers avoided making compliance checks because you asked them not to— a claim I find dubious, and something that in any case would not fly in Florida. If you think you can help Floridian registrants by renting to them, that’s great, but you will need to be in a position to handle compliance checks and PO visits on your property. If you can’t handle that, then you need to re-think whether you have any real commitment to helping registrants in this state.
Jacob
To add to what you said, if you told cops, Sheriffs or FDLE agents to not come to your house for compliance checks, you would open a can of worms so big that it couldn’t be described. They would make it their mission to make your life misrable.
I treat the officer that comes to my house with respect and he does the same to me. I don’t ever have an issue with him (But have with some others in the past). He leaves and I never hear from him again until it is the appointed time to come by again.
He is nice but I can bet your bottom dollar, if I was nasty to him and told him to get off my property, he would make my life a living Hell. Now if some a-hole cop is harassing you just for being on the registry, make a complaint with your state’s law enforcement agency.
Good morning. FAC
Here is question.
We need boots on the ground in Tallahassee for the meeting coming up.
Is there someone who is in the FAC leadership who has the clout willing to go and speak, but can’t because of funding. What would it cost to send them, food, transportation, hotel.
Even though we are living on a budget we will put money where our mouth is. We may not be able to cover it all but we will do our part.
As you have said it is so important to have representative there, speaking, not just for the RC’S but their family’s, and many others, it the introduction of the person it can be stated who they represent which can include how many members and how many that represents as a whole lot of people who vote. And are tax payers.
So let’s see if we can raise the funds to get er done.
Thanks for letting me share
It’s more than that. Things get snuck on the agenda last minute and we may not know from one day to the next whether something will be heard.
True I understand that that happens. but what about those FAC knows about?
Would it not be better to at least be there for that?
I am a bit confused, as the reason that no one could not go from FAC was funding.
Help me out here
I just got finished reading the bill for a second time this morning. From what I read this bill is being seriously misrepresented on this site.
The changes referred to involving partial days refers to a registrant’s residence or temporary lodging. I see nothing that states you must register a store or a friends house or any other place you visit 4 times per year. The partial days refer only to a residence or lodging. And even if it didn’t, it requires you to stay at the place for 3 consecutive days. You are not going to stay at a store for 3 consecutive days unless it’s open for 24 hours. If you stay at a friends house for 3 consecutive days then you have to register his house. The first day doesn’t count so it is apparent they intend that this not apply to brief visits.
I can see how people can view it as if you go to the store 3 days in a row that you have to register the store. But this takes out a couple of cardinal rules in statutory interpretation, first the statute must be read by the plain language of the statute and second the statute must be read as a whole. Reading the statute as a whole, the most reasonable interpretation is that brief visits are not part of the statute’s intent. The statute also contains criminal penalties. Another rule of statutory interpretation is that penal statutes are read strictly against the state. There is nothing in this statute that says that you have to register a place you visit 4 times per year. The statute is clear that this subsection applies to where you reside or lodge.
It defines a residence (Temporary, transient and permanent) as including where you “abide”. Abide means “to remain stable or fixed in a state”.
If it were “abide for at least 24 hours” or “abide overnight”, there would be clarity, but it does not.
Under Transient residence it clearly states, where a person “lives, remains, or is located for a period of 3 or more days in the aggregate during a calendar year”. The words “remain” or “is located” also have common understanding. This morning I was located at Dunkin Donuts.
Whatever ambiguity existed before was not clarified by adding days can mean any part of a calendar day.
FAC can prepare the statement. Someone just needs to read it into the record. You don’t have to share your story if you don’t want to.
Something I gleaned from tonight’s weekly update that may not be clear above.
Jacob:
There are a lot of people in this effort trying to help registrants in general. I have helped out individual registrants with housing and other needs. I am speaking about helping registrants in general. When we work to end the registry all registrants benefit.
FAC and affected Floridians should take a glance at how ACSOL and Janice fight bills in Sacramento.
They actually have a lobbying team that works the Capitol prior to public debate and vote.
When it’s time to speak up they will have 35 people speak in opposition of the bill against 1 or 2 supporting it. They have defeated many horrendous bills in California this way.
It truly gets the attention of the lawmakers when that happens.
There are many on this forum who are bright, intelligent and could articulate the problems with this non-stop lunacy before a legislative committee.
That is the way forward for FAC and to put a check on the madness in Florida. Just my 2 cents…
Way to go JZ!
You have answered what I have been asking myself all day how does ACSOL do it?
It’s what I posted the other day about needing the right representation.
Now the question and challenge is the how to get that here with FAC.
I don’t believe it’s wishful, magical thinking to hope for that to happen.
I don’t believe in my heart of hearts that FAC would be against that happening here in FL. But our people are worked to the hilt.
Because of my age and other circumstances I can’t be as involved as I want. But I have still got a bright mind and a desire for all to prosper and be free to live.
Thank you for you info, I now know how to pray better.
God bless FAC!!! And all those who work so hard!
That was meant to be “CJ”
Sailtime:
This site is busier than the ACSOL site. Based on that you have many motivated to stand up against tyranny.
You must walk before you run. I’d suggest conference calls for education and shared collective thoughts.
Then, scheduled meetings in various large populated regions within the state.
Once the momentum builds then bring forth an action plan to fight in the state Capitol.
Truth is always a defense to false light. We own many truths that are ignored by legislators such as your maniacal Mrs. Book and her cronies.
I never read the constitution until my constitutional rights were robbed from me.
All the best!
When we speak out, protest, or “show up,” it elicits almost zero sympathy. All you get is blank stares and hand-wringing. So you see, do to inherent human tribalism, there will always be outrage against us… not FOR us.
I used to think we’re all guilty by association. Wrong. It’s all HATE by association. We’re all generalized as undesirables and deplorables. The general public actually believes that ALL sex offenders give victims a sense of control over their own personal tragedies. There is no point in trying to reach out and engage these people in civil discourse. There mind is made up. You simply cannot deprogram hate.
RIFF RAFF:
If your face is on the sex offender registry then there is no worse place for your face to be. Getting your picture on the news should be a walk in the park. Derek can tell you about counter protesters. There were none in Denver. You’re not putting forth “reasons”. You are putting forth excuses for inaction. I, and a lot of other people, are wasting our time trying to help you. If you cannot find the time to help yourself, then I cannot find the time to help you.
Were you helping him
In the first place?
Detroit, I am writing this 2nd response in case the 1st one does not get posted, Detroit,, what is the reason there is so much lack of support of sex offenders??
Please explain,, why is there so much lack of support?
What do you think Detroit?
Hello Detroit
I have sat on this all day wanting to write you concerning you post to RIFF RAFF.
Sir that was very unkind what you said to him.
I personally don’t think you really understand the plight of those on the registry .
He was not giving excuses. He was giving the facts. I commend him for being open, transparent and vulnerable to speak the truth.
Unless you have walked in the shoes of a registered citizen or their families, friends you can’t truly understand the hurt, fear, shame, guilt, they bear.
You say that having your picture should be a cake walk, Really, will not to those who have had it happen to them. The pain that it causes to their families, the possible loss of a job, being asked to move, with no where to go. It isn’t only the registered citizen who is impacted, their families experience similar pain and ostracization. Even though some of our offenses have been committed decades ago, it is a family affair, even to grown family members scattered throughout the nation. Having your face scattered on the newspapers and 6:00 news does not help them or the cause. It increases the pain.
No sir you are wrong; RIFF RAFF had courage to tell it like it is.
I ask the question of you as was asked before, “Where have you helped him?”
I don’t like writing as this it is not my favorite past time, but write I must.
FAC is right, for a Rally is not what we need. It is exactly what they said, good solid representation at the meetings, and not by a registered citizen unless they are able to and have their family’s blessing. Remember, it is a family affair.
We have some of the best folks working for the cause through FAC. One woman, I’ll just call “A” is tireless, and an amazing woman who is not just concerned for her person on the registry but for all. I honestly do not know how she does what she does for FAC while caring for her aged mother.
You say FAC dropped the ball? Really? When?
I have been around the block several times, in the 80 years of my life, and I am on the registry. And I know the hurt and stigma it brings.
I just say be kind.
Respectfully
Beb:
Thanks for speaking up. Registrants in Florida need someone in Tally because that’s where the state capitol is. I believe an annual Rally in Tally can get more persons involved and push change faster in Florida. If you have the time and energy for such an endeavor you should contact Derek at oncefallen.com to learn about his experiences in doing these rallies.
I disagree with FAC’s assertion that no one will show up. This is the negative thinking that is holding this movement down.
For those who lack the transportation and time, rallies can be held in Miami and Tampa. If you think that no one will show up at your rally, then no one will. Registrants in Florida just need someone to organize the first rally. If the registry is as burdensome as some make it out to be, knock on the doors of registrants and ask why they are sitting on their hands doing nothing. Their addresses are published. If they refuse to participate then the registry isn’t that important to them.
Miami metro has a population greater than the entire state of Colorado. Rest assured, if Derek can get a dozen people to show up in Denver, registrants can get a dozen people to show up in Miami, Tampa or Tallahassee. Derek and I traveled hundreds of miles to attend the Denver rally. Miami metro residents have, at the most, 30 miles to travel to a Miami rally. If you can’t get a dozen people to show up at a rally, the registry clearly is not affecting registrant’s lives that much.
@Detroit: I would garner that most registrants are under some supervision that would prevent travel without a travel permit. The rest are probably just sick of the whole thing and have some qualms about involving themselves. Maybe there’s a motivation factor, but I feel that there are enough of us to have an effect on the law through voting and lawsuits. I am one of the lucky ones: Adjudication withheld and I can vote. Family members should be more in tune with whom to vote for that has a direct impact on their loved ones. Lawsuits even in counties can have every registrant in the county attached, it’s a matter of having them on standby. Most registrants aren’t in a position to contribute, but if all registrants were able to work, through the power of incorporation, they would have money and such a corporation could produce something to make a profit that could contribute to the overall well-being of the employed registrants and make larger donations/funding toward lawsuits. Registrants have lots of skills that can come in handy in such an endeavor. People need purpose and by people mean registrants. Keep it professional.
Ben
Thank you for your logic and professional thinking.
You are going to confuse Beb and others. What we need right now is someone who can show up to the committee hearing to voice opposition to SB 234 for the record. I believe FAC left Beb contact instructions below.
A rally is off-topic here.
Agreed – one articulate person showing up at the meeting to explain the issue with the bill is so much more valuable than a dozen marching with signs.
FAC:
Derek got about a dozen people to show up at his Denver rally. Florida has 4 times the population of Colorado so it is practical to expect 4 dozen people to show up in Tallahassee. If you can’t get a dozen people to show up at a rally, especially in Tally metro, the registry is not that burdensome.
A lot of interpretations of this bill on this website seem to be going beyond what’s actually in this bill. If you have an attorney that has the time to digest this bill and give his opinion as to how this bill will be applied and publish it on this site, I believe that will allay a lot of fears.
The take away from this bill is to be better prepared for the next so there’s not so much panic. I appreciate the FAC volunteer’s efforts on behalf of registrants but there must be more participation to be successful. I still believe a Rally in Tally is a good way to get people involved.
We’ve been doing this for a LONG time. We know the metrics, average response rates, who shows up, who will contribute, who just complains. It’s not our first rodeo.
No matter the outcome, Constitutionally nobody sentenced before Oct 21, 2021 would be forced to comply, nobody would before the fact
Really?
Mark you would need to change Would to should. What is right and just is one thing but since when did the government, law makers, judges and law enforcement do what is right, legally, morally or constitutionally as far as registrants are concerned.
Heck, they retro actived the HELL out of the registry requirements so what makes you think they will not apply this with a blanket of Ex post facto love upon us?
My charges are from 1991. I did not get to plea bargin using the registry which if I had been able to, would not have gotten as much time because I would have fought like my freedom depended on it. I did the time they gave me and was ready to move on and rebuild my life. THEN the registry was applied in 1997 and all bets were off.
@mark: I was sentenced in 1991, before the registry existed, released from supervision in 2008 for a crime I didn’t even commit. Let’s have a little discussion regarding the constitution…
Mark
I pled on 06/04/1997 for a supposed attempted act, unknowingly of the consequences & facts of the issue & under distress by local law enforcement with complicated circumstances The Registry in Florida didnt start until October 1997. I served no prison time & was off probation in 2002 yet im on the registry. Unless you are a Floridian especially North Florida you truly don’t know what the Judiciary system is capable of in North Florida.
Hopeless, you have the opportunity to petition to get off the registry next year. You don’t realize how blessed (given the circumstances) you are.
Sailtime:
Derek has already held a couple of rallies in support of registrants. Neither turned into a January 6th rally. I actually attended his Denver rally and it was about a dozen people holding up signs.
Derek held his Rally in Tally in 2016. This apparently was a one off rally to expose the truth about Lauren Book. FAC shot itself in the foot by not supporting this rally. Derek’s Denver rally attracted about a dozen people. Florida has 4 times the population as Colorado so this event should have attracted about 4 dozen people. What Derek got out of the rally was a couple of news stories.
Had FAC supported the Rally in Tally and turned it into an annual event they probably would have at least 100 participants if not 200 by now. Remember there are 73,000 persons on Florida’s registry, 30,000 of whom live in Florida and are not incarcerated. If you get only 1% to show up that’s 300 registrants. About 1/2 the people (if not more) at Derek’s Denver rally were not on the registry. If each of these 300 registrants had only one family or friend show up, you would have 600 participants. Let’s face it, if you can’t get 1% of registrants to participate, then the registry isn’t as onerous as people make it out to be.
Derek traveled from Ohio to Florida to protest. I traveled from northern Michigan to Denver to participate in Derek’s protest. Tallahassee is only a 4 hour drive from Tampa and a 7 hour drive from Miami. My trip from northern Michigan to Denver is about 20 hours or about 3 times the trip from southern Florida to Tallahassee and I am not even on the registry. I have never been on the registry or affected by it. What this tells me is that I have a distorted perception of the registry. If you can’t get 1% of people on the registry to participate then either my perception of the registry is distorted or more than 99% of registrants are quite content to be on the registry.
A lot of people seem happy that I try to help out. I feel like a white person at a black lives matter rally. Many people on this site and others seem to take the position that I have no right advocating on their behalf and that I should butt out. I am involved in various causes and most certainly would be content to butt out and direct my attention to other causes where my time is appreciated and respected.
If FAC had turned Derek’s Rally in Tally into an annual event I believe they would have over 100 participants by this point. Someone would have surfaced by now who would be a viable spokesperson against this bill. FAC is looking for a spokesman in the middle of the battle. You don’t prepare for a fight in the middle of the battle. It’s like organizing a fire department while your house is on fire.
The good news is that there are many more battles ahead to prepare for. FAC has laid the foundation in Florida to fight the registry. Now it’s up to registrants to build on that foundation. An annual Rally in Tally would be a good start. Don’t be discouraged if you don’t even get a dozen people to show up at your first event. In time you will have several hundred participants and the press can’t ignore you then. The most important thing is that you have to show up and persevere. Once this thing gets going, you will have several people who will be able to work as spokespersons. The reality is that registrants in Florida are simply unprepared for this fight. I believe an annual Rally in Tally would get more people involved on the ground so you are better prepared for the next fight. I know a lot of people are frustrated with FAC. You have to remember they’re not getting paid for their efforts and a lot of their volunteers aren’t even on the registry. What FAC is lacking in is sufficient participation. They probably don’t have the time to do a Rally in Tally but if someone could step up and take on this task I believe you will see more participation in Florida. If you can’t even get 1% of registrants to participate, you have to consider if you’re wasting your time.
Here’s the problem… people don’t show up.
Detroit, There are a few reasons that Registrant’s do not show up, the main on is we are scared, having our picture taken and along with our full name and address be plastered on numerous news papers, front page even, if the rally’s get big enough think of the counter protestors that will show up, victim’s as well as many victims supporters holding sign’s saying things like stop the child molesters, stop the rapists/ once a sex offender always a sex offender. Think about it Detroit, If rally’s get big enough you are right, the media will take notice and things will most definitely go in a direction that will not benefit the registered,, most of us including myself are scared and rightly so,
@Detroit: The only registrants that would show in Tallahassee live in Florida. It’s 8 hours from Miami, 2 hours from Jacksonville. If a rally were to be successful, there would need to be a registration process just to make sure it’s worthwhile to book an event. I live in Tally and I still can’t make it to most of these things because I work during those days and hours it would matter.
I was just thinking…some registered citizens would not be permitted by law to register addresses that violate distance restrictions. So if a registrant’s doctor’s office, or grocery store or local fast food joint is near or includes a playground, then it can not be registered nor frequented by the registrant.
Register everything. Then let FDLE sort it all out. Death by a thousand paper cuts.
Good point! It’s effectively a statewide proximity ordinance.
A statewide Brevard County, even if that was not the intention.
Adam
I can see it now, Grocery stores will place playground equipment in their parking lots so we can be banned from their place of business. This could be a GOOD thing, as again, only a moron or A-hole would not consider that punitive. If we are unable to shop for groceries, we will be up shizt creek.
Should this pass I am sure law enforcement is going to lose their minds. Imagine registering everything from Wendy’s to the Post Office to even the Sheriff’s Office. I intend to register everything under the sun.
I would bet that if the registry were considered punishment, as it should be, that those judges would NOT in favor of Ray James. (The case in Tampa that started all this.) Those judges are only making it a big deal so as to get the Legislature to act quickly. They would have read the law as everyone other person on this planet has been reading it for 25 years if they knew that their favorable ruling would mean James wouldn’t have to register until he paid his fine. Which would be the case if the laws were correctly considered punishment. He couldn’t be retroactively required to follow Book’s law that’s about to pass with flying colors.
THE SEX OFFENDER REGISTRY IS PUNISHMENT. All of our energy, money, time and sweat should be spent on getting some judge to simply state the obvious. We’re gonna wear ourselves out with these fires that we keep trying to (unsuccessfully) stamp out.
When would this rule take effect, if it is passed?
October 1, 2021
Has anything they come up with not passed? It seems like anything they come up with passes no matter what.Letters people speaking doesn’t do anything it’s literally nothing anybody can do let’s just face it wow just imagine what’s coming I didn’t sign up for this we I plead to four years probation in 1991 when I was 18 in high school!
Yes, her presumption of dangerousness to one’s own children bill didn’t pass
If I had the resources to attend I’d be there, since by virtue of being kidnapped, trafficked across state lines, and held for ransom for the purpose of placing me on their government hitlist, I guess I’m now a “Floridian” for all intents and purposes.
My calls and letters were obviously ignored.
Derek tried to get the Rally in Tally going years ago and only had a couple of people showed up. With an annual Rally in Tally event, you will have the infrastructure in place to do an emergency rally so there is no last minute panic.
Preparation in any endeavor is the key. Even if you miss the boat in this case, you can be better prepared for the next time.
Hello Detroit
A rally of SO’s really. It would be seen as a ,bunch of rioters.
You don’t think that rally would garner a bunch of sympathy do you?
Now if you can turn that into a block of voters who could vote these people out of office and hit their seat of power and money, then your talking.
How to go about that I don’t know.
In reading your posts you seem to be an intelligent person. Got any ideas.
Letters, phone calls and email’s from Registered citizens alone don’t don’t seem to carry much weight. but from real voters it just might.
Seems to me that there are enough families, friends, and concerned people of RC’s to make up a sizable block.
Do you have any ideas?
Respectfully
No point in rallying if we can’t even show up to committee hearing.
Rallies have their time and place, and I am grateful that organizations such as W.A.R. and Once Fallen have experience with them.
But if you’re going to be in Tally, we’ve got something else for you to do.
@Jacob: What else is there to do in Tally? I live in Tally.
If you can speak on behalf of FAC before a committee meeting, please contact Anita in membership ([email protected]) we NEED this help!
FAC
CAN YOU PLEASE RESPOND WHAT THIS MEANS IN A ‘STEP-BY-STEP APPROACH’
VERY CONFUSED WITH THIS PROPOSED LEGISLATION ADDITION
THKS
Here, Here on the question, we need an understanding of this bill, a clear step by step approach. all the comments are very confusing and garner a lot of fear mongering.
Help us FAC to understand the true interpretation of the bill.
The bill re-defines “day” as, “any part of a day.”
That creates a problem for persons required to register.
The bill does other things that are not bad. But re-defining “day” in this way, would be bad.
I think we understand this bill. But the legislature does not, not even its own sponsor, and that’s a problem.
I hadn’t really read into Lauren Book till now. She is the biggest Pos. An article I read that passing some laws in general put people nowhere to live but under a bridge and she deeply regretted it. I almost lost my mind. I hope selling her soul for profit was well worth it. I could not believe some of the contributors to her campaign. Makes me never wanting to watch football again. Geo seems to have lined her pockets well.
How much would an attorney cost to represent our side in Tallahassee? Would we be able to raise funds for it?
THOSE WERE MY THOUGHTS TOO!
If FAC is asking Registered citizens to go and speak, that is like saying it’s ok to swim with purana, The legislature would go sure you want this changed not because it’s wrong but only because it affects you. And who are you? Nothing!
I too would contribute to helping get those, to the meetings who could speak on the behalf of RC’s. I willingly support FAC and the cases. I know not everyone can contribute.
But I do think we might get more support if their were someone from FAC or a repetitive of FAC on our behalf there fighting.
It’s boots on the ground.
I sent out ten communications and I don’t think it amounted to a hill of beans with them.
Sailtime
@Sailtime: May I suggest Richard Greenberg of Rumberger, Kirk, and Caldwell? He does clemencies and is considered the “clemency guru.”
Of course there are also PR firms that may be up to the task. Such as Sachs media or Zimmerman agency.
I haven’t read the bill but from the comments it looks like it’s more of the same garbage I’ve come to expect everytime we have a legislative session. They keep piling this garage on and some day. It’s all gonna come to a nasty end. I just hope it’s not a registrant that finally snapps and starts shooting people.. I do hope it’s in a legal challage that stops the punitive side of this nonsense. I don’t know how in the world you can register a place your only at for a few minutes??
So I go to church sevral times a week? Thays gonna be registered?
Sounds like an abortion getting ready to happen at the sherrifs office. No way anyone can keep up with this garage. This sounds like the same laws they passed in Alabama.
The DMV is going to look at us like we are idiots. I mean who in their right mind is going to list tons of temporary or transient residencies at the DMV? Even the sheriff department is going to be like wtf.
Maybe a word to FDLE would calm the waters? They have to enforce this shit, so maybe if their job were about to become many times more confusing, they’d have something to say. Just sayin. Trying to think outside the box.
Ben…thinking outside the BOX….
Last Time I visited The Hitler State…They asked me for the VIN Numbers of My Vehicles….I Responded, “They were just sold, any other questions?”…and I walked the fck out!
At least I’m not just throwing my hands up and leaving. Contribute to the solution or sulk in the mounting problems.
FDLE’s “Ron Dray” was at the hearing today. He “waived in support” of the bill. Here’s the video:
https://flsenate.gov/media/VideoPlayer?EventID=1_3wpkrnbb-202102151430&Redirect=true
Time mark 7:37 to 12:39
Five minutes of their day to further ruin the rest of our lives.
In every conceivable way I hate that woman’s guts. My only hope is that one day she suffers as she ensures others suffer. May the ground that she is to be buried in be cursed and forever torture her rotten soul.
She truly has earned a CU Next Tuesday from my camp.
I wonder what would happen if we all banded together and formed a corporation with every registrant, old and new, listed as an officer of the company? They would lose their minds. Professionally, there would be absolutely nothing they could do. I was vice president of a corporation for 15 years while I was on probation and you can’t imagine the freedom that you can have because of having a corporation. If we actually produced something, now you’re talking about a real industry with real money and I’m sure all of our collective skills would make one heck of a company. Complete with benefits. There are all kinds of ways that could be used to our advantage.
Thanks JZ for the link.
What a joke, The presenter of the bill didn’t even seem to have a good knowledge of her own bill, used scare tactics to introduce.
A good passionate lawyer, or spoke person with a reasonable understanding could have ate her lunch.
A person can look up the definition of a day, and just with that bit of ammunition would have given her a heavy broadside.
Sailtime
I believe any 4th grader could tell you that a “day” and “part ” of a day are two different animals. The same as a pie and a piece of pie are both pies but NOT the same thing. One is a WHOLE pie (day) the other is a slice or piece of pie (Partial day).
If this passed I will never leave the house again. We need a “Million offender” march or something against the registry as a whole.
Anyway, I never recieved an answers as usual. I asked if this does pass, couldn’t that be more ammo for the Ex post facto case?????
Yes, of course it can be more ammo and a potential emergency injunction, but all we care about at this point is giving our all to prevent that from becoming necessary.
Are you familiar with the Alabama
Registry? There reporting requirements sounds just like this bill. My dad lives there.
It’s so confusing in Alabama when you call they literally can’t explain it to you. I always stay in GA near the border and just drive over to visit.
FAC
Thanks
Don’t forget to mention that if this bill becomes law, we have have to register Florida buildings as places where we “remain.”
If this law passes, which I’m sure it will, we should all ignore it. They can’t lock us all up. This is not right and can not be enforced.
Just like the Brevard County ordinance where
There is supposed to be a registry of businesses that don’t want us around. That registry doesn’t exist.
You are mistaken Vinny – they might not lock up everyone but they lock up some and you have to pray you won’t be one of the ones.
So in Brevard, no businesses bothered to certify after all? That is encouraging.
With all the current “OPERATION WATCHDOG” arrest and general everyday arrest on compliance issues going on at the same time frame as Senator Book rallies for her SB234 It is clear to me & has been for many years that we can object (which I Did) but the State of Florida is hopeless. Im not a lifetime offender but I still can’t get free. At what point will the insanity stop. At what point do we hold the new offenders responsible for stupidity. They see what has happened to us ….. im tired of dealing with this crap
Vinny, As bad as things are you must follow the law, by not doing so, this will reflect on all of us. Stay strong, follow the law, things will get better, but by not following the law this will NOT get better and will reflect bad on all of us. The actions of one person can affect many. Stay Strong!
I am in California but registered in Florida so I am afraid I can not make it.
Don’t see much point in it anyway. She always gets her way being a victim and all…not popular in today’s victim orientated culture we find ourselves in.
Sounds too me however that Senator Lauren Book IS the ULTIMATE “Karen” being a spoiled white girl depending on her father and never happy!
What were the calls, emails, letters for? Do those not do anything?
Not enough.
Florida Action Committee-
Unfortunately I am unable to physically attend a meeting/rally alone do to health issues. And no one to take me. So I did everything I could.
Many of my emails were auto responded about volumes of emails, etc. I wasn’t even aware of this bill until late this afternoon. This requires in person objection.
This bill was last year.
That’s weird. It just popped up in my email today. And I saw later I had commented on it. No wonder I was so confused. I just emailed pretty much everyone about the Feb 2022 bills today though. A lot of good it will do, I’m sure
This really sucks. I’m in Tallahassee but I have to work and I cannot take days off right now. I don’t know anyone who would be able to make it from my end. Maybe the best course of action would be to hire an attorney here or some other spokesperson who could make a clear and concise argument against this. Unfortunately it’s just the best that I’ve got for you. I wish FAC were up here where all the action is.
It’s takes MONEY, A WHOLE LOT OF SPENDING MONEY to hire these “Lawyers or Spokesperson” you speak of!!!!!! Something that most of us DON’T HAVE!!………Some of us are barely eating and paying the basic bills!!!…….. The “System” AKA “Lauren Book” has legislated us to RIGHT WHERE SHE/THEY WANT US!!! Broke and too Damn scared to do or say anything against these new laws!!!. For FEAR or Retaliation because we show up to oppose a bill!!!. What can we do????. I’ve been told by SEVERAL cops and people (some family) that work in the Court house and State Buildings, That they ALL have Caller ID and they take down any number that opposes or speaks against ANYTHING!!!!. And I’m sure the names get put on (another) list that equal to the “Domestic Terrorist” list!.