SB 234 – WE NEED PRESENCE IN TALLAHASSEE!!!
For those who didn’t watch the Senate Judiciary Meeting today, SB234 made it through. Senator Book gave her pitch, never mentioning the change in definition to “part of a day” and NOBODY showed up to oppose it. The next stop is the Senate Rules Committee and we NEED, NEED, NEED people to show up to speak out in opposition. We MUST put our objections on the record.
Anybody in or near Tallahassee who would be willing to speak out against this bill, please contact [email protected]. We need to do a better job at the next stop.
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The figures that I am reading is that Florida has 74,000 people on the registry, this includes the dead, out of state registrants and a certain non-cooperating registrant in Nebraska. They post 30,000 registrants who are in Florida and non-incarcerated. It would be nice if there was some way of accurately verifying these numbers.
Jacob brings up a good point. If there are 500 registrants in Tally metro and you can’t get one person to speak, you have a problem. An office in Tally is out until sufficient funds are raised. A good option is to pay an attorney in Tally until FAC opens an office.
FAC has already stated how rushed this was and how little notice there was for this hearing. It is clear that they are trying to rush this bill through with as little debate as possible. The most important thing is to be prepared for the next bill.
It will probably be several years before FAC will be able to open an office in Tally. As they make these laws more and more burdensome, I believe participation and donations will increase. It’s only a matter of time until sufficient funds come in where they can begin to discuss opening an office in Tally.
Right – can ONE (1) person in tally chime in?
Detroit
I will be glad when FAC goes out of business. HERE ME OUT!
The registry should NOT exist. The only reason there IS an FAC is because their IS a registry. If we could get it ruled unconstitutional, I am sure FAC would be happy to disband. That is, unless they want to convert to help future released offenders.
All these other states are winning victories against the registries. I think it would make more sense to band together and do a nationwide class action representing ALL on the registries nationwide.
Many ex offenders will be dead before we see relief. Why even call us ex offenders since we are treated like we are one step away from dragging victims into alleys when no one is looking.
Honestly, would it make a difference if a registered citizen showed up to oppose this or any other bill? When is the last time we stopped a bill from becoming law?
Given the travel restrictions, reporting requirements, and proximity restrictions, it would be much better, in my opinion, to hire an attorney to speak for us. At the least a non-registrant who can travel unencumbered.
You are forgetting we need to pay this person.
FAC:
There are about 30,000 registrants on the registry. Half are in the state. If we all ponied a dollar, that would be $15,000 toward someone speaking.
Ben,
That’s a wonderful theory if it worked in practice. This isn’t our first rodeo trying to raise funds for something.
Oh… and there are more than 70,000 (seventy thousand) registrants in Florida!
why pay someone to speak when it just takes one volunteer to prepare the statement plus another to read it into the record
Even better. Let’s try and get that one dollar from everyone.
Of which over 40,000 are either dead, incarcerated, or not in the state.
I still argue that we should be hollaring at SMART to audit the funds they give to Florida.
“Again, it is NOT about Funding”
Your words, not mine.
It’s not about funding, because you don’t have to pay to read a statement to a committee in a hearing.
It really doesn’t matter WHO reads it into the record, amirite?
So why not just go and do it for free?
Someone just needs to be available to do it.
If we fail to do this, then one argument they can make in court is, “nobody objected!” Right?
1000%
It don’t matter if the person reading it into the record is registered. The statement just needs to be read into the record by someone, for the reason outlined above.
Just to recap.
I recognize that people have a variety of reasons they can’t be there. But being a registrant in itself shouldn’t hold someone back. You get your three minutes, you read the statement into the record, you thank them, they thank you, you walk out.
It would be hard for anyone to argue that our position here lacks credibility. Harder still, if we have to take them to court after warning them.
FAC,
You have said, “The next stop is the Senate Rules Committee and we NEED, NEED, NEED people to show up to speak out in opposition. We MUST put our objections on the record.”
I have asked is there someone in Leadership who has clout who could speak.
I have asked is it funding, if so I would help fund the trip, I have asked what would it take to send someone. Transportation, food, hotel?? But all I got back was
“Florida Action Committee on February 18, 2021 at 10:07 am
It’s more than that. Things get snuck on the agenda last minute and we may not know from one day to the next whether something will be heard.”
The answer I sent back was
“True I understand that, that happens. but what about those FAC knows about?
Would it not be better to at least be there for that?
I am a bit confused, as the reason that no one could not go from FAC was funding.
Help me out here”
Somewhere in these post I read it was funds. So Here I am asking ok how much. “Lets put it out there and see if we can get it done.
I have seen a lot of wasted hurtful words in these posts concerning this. Including some of mine I am sure.
But please don’t put out a call like that and not look even at the possibility.
As I wrote someone at FAC today privately. Concerning these posts and the responses. I support FAC in the ways I can, FAC is important to us. The Cases we have are important. “But as an old sailor in the Navy, and privately. Some times you just got to change course a bit or you got to do a “Come About”, To get to your destination.
I am respectively your
Sailtime
It is not funding. It is finding someone in the area who would step up to appear.
Again, it is NOT about Funding. SOMEONE LIVING IN OR NEAR TALLAHASSEE needs to step up. Nobody has.
FAC
I know you do not want to hear this but believe it is fear. When you speak at one of these things, it is often on the news. In order to speak, as far as I know, you have to state your name. People like myself have been drug through the news enough to know what ithas done to our families and our lives.
I know it sounds bad that we want justice but won’t take a stand. I compare it to the Florida lottery. I do not play because if I won, I would be all over the news and people would come out of the wood work wanting money from me or they will sue me.
Also a reason why so few are in these registry lawsuits. I am surprised they were allowed to be called Does as Florida doesn’t allow you to be anonymous. At least that is what 3 lawyers I spoke to stated and why they couldn’t find anyone to fight the registry for their firms.
I am usually not a scaredy cat, but after having the news show up at my elderly parents house and harassing them, I was ready to commit a crime against those news reporters that would have sent me to Hell and jail.
Over 500 registrants live within five miles of the State Capitol, according to FDLE. What would it take to get just one of them, or one of their family members, to show up?
Of course, I am counting a lot of non-FAC members, plus transients, while overlooking others in the Tally area. But FAC Membership Committee, I assume, has a better handle on local membership.
FAC Membership Committee, do we need to consider a more targeted reach-out to members in the Tally area, similar to what we did in Brevard? Or has something like that already been happening?
We are working on it.
Struggling to understand the implications for a local Tally resident to deliver the statement—
There isn’t actually anything controversial in the statement to be delivered. It does not, for example, defend or minimize sexual offending in any way. Nor does it require one to tell their own personal story if they don’t feel comfortable.
But it DOES identify a mistake in verbiage that could create a costly burden, not only for thousands of families, but for 60 sheriffs offices around the state as well as FDLE. Without a correction, everybody loses.
And even if that were controversial— the purpose is to go on record for the Florida Senate Rules Committee, not to influence the local Tallahassee community. Does ANYONE in Tallahassee locally even follow the proceedings of the Senate Rules Committee? I doubt it, but maybe there’s something I don’t understand about the Tally community.
You won’t be in the news.
99+% of what goes on in a state Senate committee hearing doesn’t make the news.
In particular, Florida’s legal definition of “a day”— the issue in question— is not considered newsworthy by most news outlets, other than FAC.
Is it fear of the news that’s holding us back from appearing in committee? Our aim is not to make a statement for the media, but for lawmaking committee proceedings.
@Jacob:
I’ve been saying for years that FAC needs an office up here in Tallahassee, since this is where most of the action is.
We do have two people in central and south Florida who are willing to drive to Tallahassee to speak and they are registrants, but the problem is that you often do not have enough warning to know what day to be present. We cannot ask these people to make 4- to 6-hour drives, having no idea what day or time the committee is meeting.
That is why it is so important to get someone who lives in or near Tallahassee.
According to the Gainesville Sun, lobbyist are given preferential treatment when it comes to speaking at these committee meetings. Others are given up to 3 minutes but only if there is enough time. Some people only get 30 seconds, while some are given no time at all.
State law requires counties/municipalities to give citizens time to speak, but the legislature does not have to do so. What a double standard! My guess is that many of our legislators do not care to hear what the citizens of Florida have to say.
Media
I am not being an ass but, I say let the bill pass. Then let an emergency order be pitched to the Florida supreme court that FINALLY they have enough ammo to prove this is punishment AND more ex post facto nonsense.
If we can be arrested because we visted our local grocery store for 20 minutes on 4 occasions in a month and did not go in person each time and register that, if that ain’t punitive then my name is John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt.
We’re not in agreement. If it passes we will have to live with it for years until it’s corrected by a court.
FAC
I was saying it figuratively mostly in case it does pass we still have hope. To explain it better, yes these things hurt us, however, the more and more shit they throw at the wall thinking it will stick, their has to be a point at which some eyes open somewhere.
If not, what is keeping them from taking us all to a field and just shooting us in a mass firing squad? I mean that is what many want anyway.
Has a more punitive law EVER improved our position?
Because I see this a lot— “let them make the law more punitive so we can challenge it”— and the logic seems flawed to me.
Jacob
It was satirical
Satire, artistic form, chiefly literary and dramatic, in which human or individual vices, follies, abuses, or shortcomings are held up to censure by means of ridicule, derision, burlesque, irony, parody, caricature, or other methods, sometimes with an intent to inspire social reform. Satire is a protean term.
@FAC: in understanding that fear for a local Tallahassee resident you have to understand that in reality Tallahassee is a very small town. Everyone knows everyone. It would be one thing if someone were coming from anywhere else in the state and going back there but to live here and to make those arguments here would be literally suicide. Pretty much any of the locals are connected to someone here who has business in Tallahassee that could potentially be ruined by such an appearance or has politics in Tallahassee that could also be ruined by such an appearance. My brother has a business up here and he’s very well connected everyone knows him so there is no possible way that I could make such an appearance because it would have such a detrimental impact on his life and his livelihood. so the best thing to do would be to get someone who does not live in Tallahassee to come up and read off of a sheet on that day. Or hire someone who would. Understanding the Dynamics of Tallahassee itself would be the first step in convincing someone to step up to that plate. You’re talking about career ending moves and it should not be that way but it is. Even by proxy. I would love to go and do something like that but I would have to make a hell of a lot of money a year to do that. Not quite a turning money but I wouldn’t be cheap. Even if it was ultimately for my own benefit I would have to be paid quite a hefty sum to do something like that. And I probably could never live in Tallahassee again. Not to mention the bias that I may get because I’m on the waiting list for clemency.
I can understand the fear. I just endured years of hell trying to stand up to the Books when everyone was afraid to stand with me.
Some people in this movement bashed me when the Books filed a bogus restraining order against me, and again when I was falsely accused of theft.
Thankfully there were others who stood beside me and helped me behind the scenes. And I have endured the worst fears people have in this movement. I am not afraid; hell, i would be willing to go but travel to Floriduh from podunk Nebraska is more taxing than travel from Cincinnati to Tallahassee used to be, plus we still have a pandemic to boot.
Back in 2015, when I was putting together the rally in Tallahassee, i sent out hundreds of letters to registrants in the county in hopes of attending. Only one person attended.
Yes it is free to speak but at the same time the only folks willing to do this have to travel to get there so if we cant get someone in Tallahassee, maybe we will have to fund someone willing to travel.
CJ:
Your 2 cents are important. Without participation FAC will wither. ACSOL has the benefit of having several attorneys in key positions. FAC will catch up but in order for this to happen, registrants have to speak up and be a part of the discussion.
Jacob:
I believe your talking about Mr. Williams. He wasn’t arrested under an ambiguous law, he was arrested under an asinine law. He was arrested under a county ordinance that stated he wasn’t allowed to be within 1,000 feet of a tennis court. The ordinance was not ambiguous. It’s no different from living within 1,000 feet of a school.
The problem was and continues to be that registrants keep signing these “registration” forms. Mr. Williams signed both the state and county forms so the prosecutor had “proof” that he knew he was in violation of the ordinance. The police cannot force you to sign anything. I know. I worked for both the military police and the civilian police. I’ve slid rights waiver forms in front of suspects and made it sound like they were required to sign them. The stupid ones signed the forms and the smart ones refused. When they refused we simply wrote “refused to sign” in place of their signature. Some registrants think they are smart by writing “signed under protest”. This is not smart. DO NOT SIGN THESE FORMS!!!
You are correct that Michigan and Florida are two different states with two different policies at the opposite ends of the spectrum. The Michigan State Police have a policy not to arrest registrants on technical violations. Their policy is to identify the suspect, file a police report and allow the prosecutor to decide to seek a warrant or not. In Mr. Williams case he probably would have eaten his breakfast and been long gone even if the Michigan State Police had responded. And if they did respond, all they can do is ask for his ID and file a police report. Another difference is that many police departments in Michigan are loathe to enforce these asinine laws. If you ever make it to Michigan, coral up a Detroit police officer and he will tell you what he thinks of these laws.
The problem that you face is that you are in a state where the police take these laws seriously. Dial 911 in Detroit and tell them that a sex offender is eating breakfast within 1,000 feet of a tennis court. The dispatcher will hang up on you no matter what the law says.
I don’t want to discourage you. If you do not try, you will never succeed. FAC is registrant’s best bet in Florida because they are already organized and starting to get experience. ACSOL is doing well because it’s president is an attorney. It’s just going to take time for FAC to catch up. That’s why I keep pushing everyone to participate. FAC’s success or failure all depends on how much participation they get. A lot of registrants lost faith in FAC after their “loss” in the ex post facto case. FAC didn’t “lose” it’s Ex Post Facto case. They licked their wounds, learned from their mistakes and got back into the fight. I don’t know if the ex post facto issue would have been handled differently if Janice Belluci were the president of FAC. That’s not relevant. You cannot move forward if you keep looking back. The important thing is that FAC is still in the fight. I can understand registrants disappointment in the first ex post facto case. Perhaps, they are justified in some decisions made. But you have to remember that FAC doesn’t have an attorney for it’s president and even attorneys make mistakes in trial preparation and strategy. But to stop donating to FAC is foolish. Florida is a registrant’s worst nightmare and FAC needs all the support they can get in this fight.
FAC is also fairly new. As more people get on board and FAC learns from it’s mistakes the situation in Florida will improve. I know a lot of people have been on Florida’s registry more than 20 years. It’s difficult to say be patient to someone who has been through this for 20 years but I believe most would say that they are finally starting to see change, albeit, slow change. As FAC gains traction, I see good things ahead for Florida’s registrants.
How could one be sure of the 1000 feet? Carry a rangefinder? As the crow flies? As if we could “fly” to the tennis court…
Huge mens rea issue with all these proximity laws, let alone not narrowly tailored but broadly applied to all.
Cj
There is a nasty saying that holds true in court. It goes “Ignorance of the law is no excuse”. I have always thought that was dumb. Like we all carry around a 5 lb book of codes, ordinances, laws, rules etc?
I once got asked to leave a park. I asked why. The park ranger said he ran my tag and saw I was on the registry. I pointed to the sign that said “Park rules” and said, could you show me where on your park rules it says I cannot be here?
He then said if he had to force me to leave, he would place me under arrest for refusing to leave.
CherokeeJack:
I commend you for standing up to the jack boot Gestapo. It’s not worth a night in the pokey though.
I would have to ask what is the rational reason or purpose for such a law? There isn’t one. It’s all political pandering. It directly infringes on 1st and 14th amendment activity and rights.
Federal courts slowly and surely are striking down these “laws” based on constitutional scrutiny but they’re reticent to declare the whole enchilada unlawful.
Does vs Snyder is an exception. Other states have struck down the reach back of SORNA. A couple good cases came out of Tennessee lately.
We’ll get there brick by brick.
Cherokee I like that “Ignorance of the law is no excuse” Seems law has the authority to make up their rules as they go along. Once on the registry out of vain understanding who gives the warning signs.
Are done deals just a plea deal or bargain away or a lifetime of bondage. Good intentions are good but true justice is better for all or should everyone’s tongue be cut out in this lack of wisdom.
The police can not “force you to sign anything”.
I asked if I had to sign the forms or if I could refuse when I registered last time and was told “you can refuse but you will not be registered” so your idea is nonsense here in Florida.
You need to be realistic in your comments and not get registrants in more trouble or arrested if you want to help.
FAC:
You are absolutely right about the ambiquity. What I read was 134 pages and included the pre-existing SORA. There are already several ambiquities in the current statute.
The rule of statutory construction that penal laws are to be strictly construed against the state derives from common law. Florida clearly follows this rule. Carawan v State, 515 So 2d 161 (Fl Sup Ct, 1987); Kasischke v State, 991 So 2d 803 (Fl Sup Ct,2008). This rule is different from the rule of lenity. This distinction is important because the rule of lenity is a rule of last resort. Kasischke is telling. It was a case involving a sex offender. This tells you that sex offenders will get a fair shake with the Florida Supreme Court.
You also have to consider it’s practical application. Will the police actually force you to register your stay at Duncin’ Donuts?
With the current ambiquities in the current statute and the case law, registrants don’t have to worry about not registering Walmarts and I believe they will say no to registering Lauren Book’s house if someone visited her 4 times a year. I am pissed though because you went to Dunkin’ Donuts and didn’t pick me up a Double Chocolate Bomb (I thought we were friends).
A registrant was already arrested for being at Burger King, under an ambiguous law.
We’ve said “the police would never do that” far too many times. We know from experience that if the law gives a Florida sheriff a reason to arrest someone of an unpopular class, they will make the arrest.
Detroit
I boycott dunkin donuts. One evening I went in to get a donut and was surprised how many were left. I ordered one and the gal gave me 2 saying “OH we throw them out anyway”. I asked how I could get some each night if I had proof of my Churches homeless outreach. Maybe we could set something up?
Well what came out of her mouth (Not her fault) flattened me. She said all the shops across America have to toss them for liabilty reasons. She said if someone got sick they could sue. I laughed and advised her I have a degree in criminal justice. I said “So if I got sick from the one I paid for, could I not sue?”
Anyway I hate waste as much as frivilous lawsuits. Everyone either seems to be sue happy or scared of being sued. I know many many places that donate items to homeless shelters. Sadly dunkin is not one of them.