SB 234 – WE NEED PRESENCE IN TALLAHASSEE!!!
For those who didn’t watch the Senate Judiciary Meeting today, SB234 made it through. Senator Book gave her pitch, never mentioning the change in definition to “part of a day” and NOBODY showed up to oppose it. The next stop is the Senate Rules Committee and we NEED, NEED, NEED people to show up to speak out in opposition. We MUST put our objections on the record.
Anybody in or near Tallahassee who would be willing to speak out against this bill, please contact [email protected]. We need to do a better job at the next stop.
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Jed:
Apparently you didn’t read Albertson. The U.S. Supreme Court in Smith v Doe ruled that the registry is not punishment. No where did it say that you are required to sign a form. That was one of the core issues in Albertson. The U.S. Supreme Court in Albertson ruled that they cannot force you to sign a registration form so this matter is settled. Also, state agencies (like the police or DOC) are required to abide by fundamental principles of liberty and justice. Hebert v Louisiana, 272 US 312 at 316.
Sex offender registries are a new phenomenon. There is not old case law that addresses sex offender registries (except, perhaps California which has had a sex offender registry since 1947). So you have to study old case law where the government forced people to register (like the Voorhis or Smith Acts) and apply it to the sex offender registry. The U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled that they cannot force you to sign these forms (Alberson v SACB, 382 US 70, 1965). Registrants already have the law on their side. It’s up to them to enforce it.
I remain, anyone who signs these forms is a fool.
OffenderWatch’s registration software requires you to sign multiple times. If you don’t sign, you don’t complete registration, exposing you to arrest for failure to register. That’s how it works in many Florida counties. And one arrest re-sets the clock on one’s ability to petition for removal.
Refusing to sign your registration, just on principle, is foolish. If you have a family to support, it is not only foolish but selfish.
Based on legal precedent, perhaps registrants could sue to have signatures removed from registration. But that would not be as impactful as other challenges we have going.
Jacob
Also, I always get a reciept of registration. My filing cabinet has every registration paperwork going back to 1997 when the registry started in Florida. I sometimes look at the photo on the paperwork from 1997 and wish I still had as much hair on my head as back then. Stress is Hell on your health.
Speaking of clemency, I can find no numbers of clemencies granted for registrants nor number of registrants who had their civil rights restored in Floriduh.
Has FAC ever been able to get these numbers? I remember the topic came up a few years back.
My hunch is they are nearly zero. I need to weigh the time and odds of clemency or moving before I get too old to move.
@JZ: Funny, too, because usually an attorney can give some kind of odds or level of optimism/pessimism, and mine gave me none. $10,000 though. Apparently I got the cream of the crop, so we’ll see what happens when my name comes up maybe this decade.
Jed:
I stand by my comments that any one who signs these registration forms is a fool.
The problem with registrants is they want to get a court to issue an order in their favor without taking the risk of imprisonment. They keep registering and complaining rather than confronting the beast.
Read Wallace v State, 905 NE2d 371 (IN Sup Ct, 2009). They tried to force Wallace to register and he refused. He demanded a jury trial, lost and was sentenced to prison. He appealed his case all of the way to the Indiana Supreme Court and won. He is not on the registry today because he confronted the state head on and demanded a jury trial. Yes, he did go to prison but he has been off of the registry since 2009. The reason that registrants register is because of their fear of imprisonment.
Rest assured, I stand by my assertion that anyone who signs these forms is a fool. I have the case law to back that up. The government can require you to register as part of a regulatory scheme aimed at the public in general. Grosso v US, 390 US 62 (1968). This is what allows the government to compel you to file income taxes and to register a business. However, the government cannot force “a highly suspect group inherently suspect of criminal activities” to register. Albertson v SACB, 382 US 70 at 79 (1965). Do I know if this applies to sex offender registration? I do not. But rest assured, if they were to force me to register I would have an answer because I would refuse to register. As long as people keep registering, they won’t have an answer either.
You can keep registering which means you have surrendered or be like Wallace and face the beast head on. This is not “nonsense in Florida” because the U.S. Constitution is applicable to Florida residents as it is applicable to all. I am not getting registrants in “trouble” and “arrested” for asserting their rights. More than 1 million people act like lambs being let to slaughter by choosing to comply with what is patently an unconstitutional scheme. If you are on the registry and choose not to assert your constitutional rights, you have your “reasons” and that is your choice. I cannot dictate to you how to live your life. Wallace made his decision to choose not to surrender to such asinine laws and lives his life on his own terms because he confronted these laws head on. If a person chooses to live under the thumb of an arbitrary government official, that is their choice.
Another factor you don’t take into consideration is that when persons demand a jury trial that prosecutors frequently drop the case, i.e., the Burger King guy. If he pled guilty he could have gone to jail or prison. He stood his ground and his case was dismissed. The prosecutor had to consider, “am I going to take this guy to a jury for eating breakfast within 1,000 feet of a tennis court?”. This is why we have juries. You have to ask yourself, “will a jury send me to prison for not signing a paper?”. You read about everyone sent to jail or prison who pled guilty to a technical violation but never read about all of the cases dismissed because registrants demanded a jury trial. This is because prosecutors don’t want the whole idiocy of these laws to be presented to a jury and especially don’t want an acquittal to be reported in the news.
I am not directing any venom towards you or your comment. On the contrary, I appreciate you taking the time to express your opinion. On this matter, you and I rest at opposite ends of the spectrum.
I have put forth the reasons why I believe that the law is on registrant’s side. If you have any case law that says it is constitutional to force registrants to sign a form and back that force up with criminal sanctions, I want to see that case law. Without such case law, I cannot respond to your comments.
You already have the highest authority of case law. The supreme court has ruled the registry legal as non punitive, and nothing more than signing up for a price club. (Judge Roberts I believe said this) If you do not sign that form, you will be arrested as not registering, a third degree felony and spend 5 years in prison with probation of probably 10 years to follow.
If you are an RSO in Florida and take a case to the jury, you have already shot yourself in the foot, as jurors are conditioned to think registrants are vile pariahs of society. That is why you will read registrants that took their cases to jurors on this blog got far more time that those who took the plea bargains.
I admire your and will to fight, but as you are not a registrant, you cannot understand the immense pressure LE places on registrants to conform or be arrested and jailed, especially at ground zero for registrants, which is Florida.
Jed
Just funny the Supremes music group ruled it not punitive but many judge in different states HAVE ruled parts of it punishment. These condridictions are why so many laywers have to take heart medication.
If you don’t sign the registration forms, then you have failed to register, a felony that you must then explain to your family who depends on you.
Detroit
You are under the assumption that if you follow that persons actions, you will get the same results. You will not get the same judge (Most likely) and even if you did, the is zero guarantee you will get the same ruling.
Case law is great but that is NO guarantee you will win. We each have to walk our own walk. I do not judge you for not signing and applaud you for the cojones to take a stand. But not all of us who obey the rules are whimpy sheep.
I put my family through Hell and when I lay my head on the pillow each night, I thank the good Lord for another day I am not in prison. I stay off the radar and pretty much get left alone. I get one visit to my house per year and have to visit the Nazi registration dungeon 4 times a year. Other than that, I go about my life like any other citizen.
FAC, do FL Senate committees not incorporate zooming during covid? Other states do.
Jacob – that’s an excellent question. I’m going to send this to legislative to inquire.
Jacob
Touche’ !
We got the information:
You must be physically in Tallahassee to testify. For House hearings it is in the committee hearing room or an overflow room if necessary. And for the Senate you testify via video from the civic center.
@FAC: if I were not waiting on a clemency board hearing I would have already been all over this for everyone. There has to be someone else in Tallahassee that can do this.
Dustin:
I believe you have a great idea. I looked up the SMART grants, in 2020 Washington County received $150,000, one item they listed was for the “investigation of sex crimes” which I don’t believe is an allowable use for their funds. In 2020, Liberty County received $57,200 for “compliance checks” which may be improper and travel to SMART sponsored conferences (this is a popular slush idea for paid vacations to Hawaii. It would be nice to know if they have a SMART sponsored event in Cancun hosted by Ted Cruz). In 2020, Santa Rosa county received $150,000 and listed “fringe” (cops beer, pizza and donut money). In 2019, Flagler County received $150,000 for a “staff position dedicated to sex offender registration”. They’re supposed to be doing that anyways, so it is doubtful if this is allowable.
Another good thing with this info is you can learn what they are up to. For example, in 2020 Washington County listed “retrieval of cellular and social media data” of sex offenders which means in 2021 they will be monitoring registrants cellular use and social media communications (the constitutionality of which is quite dubious).
Such an effort would require significant use of FOIA and a deep dive into the CFR. If a registrant has the time to audit these grants, I certainly would encourage them to do so.
Thanks Dustin.
@ Detroit: A little transparency would go a long way. I wonder what digging into Miami would tell us…? Brevard..?
FAC – Please read the posts – Whoever is doing the moderation, somehow there seems to be a miscommunication, I personally have asked this question about getting someone there to speak concerning Bill 234.
And we keep getting this answer.
“Florida Action Committee on February 18, 2021 at 10:07 am
It’s more than that. Things get snuck on the agenda last minute and we may not know from one day to the next whether something will be heard.”
The answer I sent back was
“True I understand that, that happens. but what about those FAC knows about?
Would it not be better to at least be there for that? What is the that Bill 234, you said it goes before the Rules committee next.
Do you know the date? The time?
Forget this stuff about snuck on the agenda last minute and we may not know from one day to the next whether something will be heard.” Unless it’s that they would do that to Bill 234.
Is the Bill234 going before the Rules Committee?
I am a bit confused, as the reason that no one could not go from FAC was funding. I have offered to fund part of it, and lets see if there are some others who may be willing.
Help me out here”
It’s not a funding issue, to my knowledge.
@Jacob: It would be a funding issue if FAC were paying someone to be there and/or if FAC drove up to Tally to be there for an unspecified number of days to make a statement. Hopefully the matter can be solved via Zoom.