The S.C. Supreme Court has ruled the state’s lifetime requirement to register as a sex offender is unconstitutional and those who demonstrate a low risk of re offending may have their names purged with a judge’s permission.
You can read the Court’s opinion here: https://www.sccourts.org/opinions/HTMLFiles/SC/28033.pdf
https://law.justia.com/cases/south-carolina/supreme-court/2021/28033.html
Watch oral arguments here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTPq69kGgiE
So South Carolina has finely found this registry is Unconstitutional. Guess it takes a space race to find out that truth is truth and justice is justice. I’m sure its the hope of all the USA to find out these sex registries are Unconstitutional. So is telling a lie than Constitutional? Who is accusing who in much of this deceptive game . Well if you didn’t come down to meet than we were coming to get you.
Would one say that would be unjustifiable in many ways or were are the precepts or the Commandments were these ordeals lay. Should we all go back to a pool hustler movie ” The hustler” or who is hustling who in many of these registry issues. Blind justice, vain justice, or intimidating justice call it what one wants but in reality nobody seems to look at the truth right in front of their nose in this registry type of propaganda of injustice.
You know what is missing from this news? TV coverage. What – not sensational enough now? Not news-worthy? Oh that’s right – don’t want to cover something you’ll have to explain to the ignorant unwashed masses.
Great point, Rick!
So once again, we trumpet a “victory” that is, on it’s best day, pyrrhic. On its worst day, perhaps you can perforate the printed version of the decision, put it on a rol and hang it next to your toilet. . Internet pictures are okay. Lose!!!! Lifetime on the registry is unconstitutional unless a judge can tell you to bugger off after pretending to consider your petition. Did I miss anything? The BEST that we can hope for is something like Georgia where the appear to actually give you a fair shot, even if you arr an out of stater. I guess that one peice of “good” news is that judges in SC are “Elected” by the legislature for 6-10 year terms and not by the card carrying members of the general public.
JoeM
The one theme of yours I can agree with is, EVERY judge is different. Just look at the U.S supreme court decisions. I cannot even remember a single case that at least one judge did not dissent for some reason.
You can win a case with flying colors, then have the state appeal and the next judge throws out your case with a boot to your hind parts. Then you appeal and win again? It is a three ring circus, BUT a very expensive one for the poor sap just trying to get their life back.
Can’t agree with you on this one. This is for sure a win. Yes, it would be great if things changed over night like they do when the politicians are at “work”, but the courts have proven repeatedly to be a great avenue for sane and reasonable corrections to the Constitutional abomination that is SORNA. It’s not the ultimate victory, but it is a substantial victory nonetheless.
All the best, mate.
So it’s a big victory? Tell me this. When will you be moving to Charleston to take advantage of your newly found freedoms? 😉
Or are you still looking at Michigan? After all, their registry has been shut down by the courts so I guess we can just stroll right in, right? (Sarcasm font)
Joe
I lived in Charleston back in the late 70s. Even back then it was turning into a cesspool. Can’t even imagine what it is like then. We lived their due to my Dad being stationed there with the military. That was his last assignment before retirement.
On a side note, not sure if they still do it, but when I went to school there, they still used paddling (3 licks with the paddle) and I got it once. it was no paddle, it was a cutting board with holes drilled in it. Believe me, even as an adult that would make me cry. Think I still have the scars on my hind parts but I cannot turn my head that far to look. LOL
Out freakin’ standing. Bravo to South Carolina for finally seeing SORA for what it really is.
I’ll post the oral arguments for this case on the Youtube channel. Always nice when judges get it.
https://youtu.be/rTPq69kGgiE
Great news that the court made a logical ruling. However I believe the State will work around it by setting up a review process with a very high bar; one that makes it nearly impossible to get off the registry. The court will call that due process.
Hiring a forensic psychologist to assess you ahead of any hearing would be wise before going into said hearing. It would be a lot tougher for a judge to over rule a subject-matter expert. If the judge still ruled against, it would also be better on appeal.
My attorney had me hire the dude the State routinely used, thus preventing their use of him but also using their sharpest tool against them. He wasn’t cheap, nor was he overly expensive–way cheaper than the attorney!
AJ
So, did it help? What was the outcome? Did you get off the registry? So many questions.
Many of us have not gone before a judge again due to cost and lack of any funds. Back when I petitioned to have my sentence struck down, I sold my house to pay for attorney and mental health expert and polygraphs.
I had to wait years until the sentencing judge rotated out and was able to go before a judge who is now on the Florida supreme court. He was awesome and actually listened to my case, the evidence and actually scolded the prosecutor for her emotion she used to sentence a first time offender who didn’t even put anyone through a trial.
I did everything the state asked of me and more and still I was given the max sentence. I was refused appeal after appeal. I did get the remaining 8 years tossed away and got off probation. It was Hella money but to have 8 years of my life back was worth it. That was almost 18 years ago and I had to file bankruptcy.
What is odd, I do not work and have no income but I get denied everytime for food stamps, public assistance etc because I live with my parents so they say I do not need help. HA
Cherokee Jack:
I should have been clearer in my post. I was referring to the process I went through in regards to my conviction. As far as did it help or “work,” I’ll let you decide. The pre-sentence investigation came back with a recommendation of time served, probation, and 90 days of an ankle monitor. My attorney was stunned by that…but there was more. The judge deviated from the PSI, skipping the ankle monitor completely. He did only give time served of “two days” in jail (which was actually 19hrs from 10pm-5pm), “up to” 60 months of probation (which was terminated early), and a $500 fine. The rest of the junk of counseling, registration, etc., wasn’t something the judge could deviate from…but even then, the counseling I went through was pretty much a cake walk and never involved any polygraphs or peter-meters.
In short, my actual criminal sentence was just a drop in the bucket; it’s the lingering waves of “collateral consequences” of the registry that bites and blows. Where I was convicted, I’ll automatically drop off the registry once my time comes, so I won’t need to use the forensic psychologist again. I would if I needed to, though.
Wish we could fall off the registry. That is another fault of all 50 states. I do not think any two states have mirror images of any other registry. Heck you could cross the line into another state I suppose and find yourself on another registry.
I thought about becoming a lawyer back in the day. The problem is, if you are a mechanic, you know how to fix the car by ordering the parts and using your skills and knowledge. You have a guarantee that when you leave your car with them, they will fix your car.
On the other hand, you hand over 1000s of dollars to lawyers, who cannot ever guarantee you squat but you still have to pay. One lawyer wanted $5000 just to correct an error on my registry page on the FDLE.
I got moved to 4 times a year because of that. It is cheaper for me to go the 4 times a year for an hour or so for free that give up $5000 for something I previously paid to get fixed. A few weeks later they edited it to make it even worse. FDLE was sending me a message that a win in court does not mean I win as far as they are concerned.
i do not understand why so many states have this finding and florida still has a lifetime for even the smallest infraction. cant we use these other cases as precedent to the state supreme court? some of us with a very light charge would like to get of the registry and remain in Florida
I would help find this. FAC, have you given this some thought?
So? If I move to South Carolina, and a Judge removes me from the sex offender registry, does that mean I am no longer a sex offender? Also, am I then allowed to move back to Florida and not have to register? And will Florida then have to remove me from their registry?
No. Not at all.
The way I read it , The defendant was removed from the registry but anyone else would have to wait till the state changes the law. Plus go through an evaluation. Also in SC just like other states that you complete your registry requirements but move to another state with different requirements your right back on the registry again.
Yes can you please email me his attorney cause Florida is saying the only reason they won’t remove is due to sc so please let me know his attorney name please
Donald
Good luck and hope you have the funds to take on these challenges. Many of us can barely pay for food so nair chance of us ever being removed. I may have to sell a kidney to go back to court.
What is even scarier, when I first went to court, back 30 years ago, I didn’t even go to trial. But between bonding out 3 times (They kept holding back charges do every time I bonded out, I got re-arrested) paying lawyers, and other fees and expenses, I had to sell my house and my car.
I spent over $75,000 just to be sent to prison for longer than someone who murdered someone. The judge at the time even spoke and said that the only suspects (She used a harsher word) she hated more than murderers were sex offenders. I knew I was screwed right then.
I blame myself for not telling my lawyer right then and there to pull my plea and go to trial. But, I didn’t have the money and was told if I lost at trial the judge for sure would punish me for that with a life sentence. He said at the time there was no worse judge I could have gotten.
Another way I knew I was screwed, when I got sentenced, my atttorney went into the hallway and vommited into the trash bin. He did redeem himself with my (even more expensive) appeal. That took almost 10 years. Also Florida at that time was handing out massive gain time due to overcrowding. So I only did 4 of that part of 10 years. Then was to do another 12 years probation.
CherokeeJack:
It sure seems you could’ve gotten your case re-heard based on the judge’s bias and prejudice. It certainly would’ve been an easy appeal.
AJ
I appealed the sentence (And won the 3rd time) I was not appealing the guilty plea because I thought if I just pleaded guilty to everything and not put anyone through a trial I would be given a lighter sentence. Boy was a I wrong.
I did not have the money for a trial (Spent it all on bonding out twice). My parents offered to mortgage their home for a trial but was not going to make my parents pay for what I did. (Although they paid in heartache over my arrest)
You can’t even die and get off the registry !!!
Jerry
Well if i am dead, I would probably be less worried about being in the registry. And for me personally, I know I would be in a better place.
I do not know if when we get to Heaven we get any super powers, but I doubt God is going to allow me to let lighting strike the registry headquarters LOL
Tired
A wise man once said “It is more likely to win Powerball than to be removed from the Florida Registry”.
Ok, not really a wise man, it was me, but …………….
I’m no expert, but hot damn this one seems like a VERY big win.
Slowly but surely commonsense and facts are slowly balancing out the overwhelming weight of paranoia and ignorance currently dictating “justice”. I remember a time when marijuana was illegal and now look at all the states legalizing recreational use……..Its all about how quickly or slowly the pendulum swings.
Rick
But, the powers to be realized they could regulate the crap out of the Pot industry and make money with fees, licenses etc.
Closing down registries will lose millions for states so not sure they will go for it. Having said that, less cops having to waste time on registrations, address checks and stupid fake stings would put more cops on the roads / patrol solving / stopping real crimes.
Who would you rather have locked up? A Car jacker who beat an old lady or someone who was one day late registering?
Not so sure about that. Abolishing the registry would actually save states multiple tons of money, but proposing it would be political suicide. Very few politicians (i.e., anyone whose living depends on elections, including judges) are willing to risk their livelihood to do what’s right or makes sense.
In SC the registrants pay a yearly fee to the state to maintain it and the Judges are appointed and not elected
This is great news and a DEFINITIVE answer to prayer for those of us here in SC!
Maybe is me, but we are talking about Florida here. Here is like trying to understand the interactions of Quantum Mechanics in relation to Space and Time inside a Black Hole. I don’t see much effect because the state will do whatever the state wants to do with little federal oversight unless the SCOTUS rules something different and we all know how that one goes. I am not being pessimist, I just do agree with Dustin, the stakes for a politician to accept that the registry is unconstitutional is mind-blowing high and with the current political climate, I highly doubt there will be any difference during the rest of our lives. My hopes rest in the SCOTUS, if they rule that the registry is illegal and unconstitutional, then everything changes, in the interim, Florida will never change the status of their fattest money making cow just to please a segment of the population they clearly hate and despise. So what that leaves us?…in reality?…nothing….just keep hoping and dreaming…at least, hoping and dreaming will not land us in jail and/or prison.
Manny
By the state I guess you mean Ron Desantis ? He seems to do what he wants without caring what anyone else thinks. He has already said he is running for President in 2024. I hope he does and loses, then he will be out of a job.
Alright! Now how do we get the Feds on board with this so that when we relocate out of corrupt Florida (and take all our money with us) we no longer have to mess with this foolishness? Or how will this affect our efforts here at getting justice out of this corrupt state?
Oh wait, I just read it, you should have led with this. It was ruled PUNITIVE.
The circuit
court held SORA’s lifetime registration requirement is punitive under the Eighth
Amendment and violates Respondent’s rights to due process and equal protection
CherokeeJack
The way I read it they didn’t say the registry was punitive but that that being on it for life was. But personally I don’t see that there is any difference.
David
Sorry that is what I meant to type, you are correct, for life part. Sorry about the overlook
The only way that would help other than just giving people some minimal due process rights is it South Carolina did not previously require you to register for life. Then you have an ex post facto possibility. But I suspect that South Carolina has always been lifetime registration. Like Florida
DavidM:
For the court to rule something to be Cruel and Unusual Punishment they would, by rule and definition, have to have found it to be punitive.
It’s this same line of logic that continues to give me hope with cases like Snyder because to find something to be ex post facto punishment a court must first find it punitive. That fact then makes it nearly impossible for the current law(s) as adjudicated to stand because it/they are no longer part of a “non-punitive regulatory scheme.”
Ok now THIS is good news. Is SC part of our district???
Let’s party like it’s 1989 (1999 had a registry, 1989 didn’t lol)
SC is NOT part of our Federal District and this is a State Supreme Court case but it’s HUGELY persuasive.
There are no hugely persuasive cases involving sex offenders in less the key says that they can take us out in the town square and shoot us. .(sarcasm font)
So, you need the permission of a judge to be removed based on a finding of low risk? I don’t see this as a win because of my experience with judges deeming anyone convicted of a sex offender as high risk.
Exactly what I was thinking. After Disantis ruling to Summarily dismiss all SO’s application for rights restoration, I would think the judges will take his example and just dismiss all applications for removal from the registry, at least in Florida claiming all sex offenders are dangerous forever.
I agree with you. Now the cabal of judges will simply rule ALL are high risk.
My experience with judges is that they assume a former sex offender (like any offender) to be low risk unless the prosecutor has successfully demonstrated otherwise.
Again, that’s just my personal experience. Different judges are different.
My personal impression is that a judge who would opine simply that “the petitioner is high risk because he has a sex offense on his record” is likely a dim bulb, or the petitioner’s attorney is bad.
So which supreme court justices effectively took judicial notice the “facts” that sex offenders, especially ones who prey on children, are always going to be high risk? And how about the ones that said that all of these burdens placed on us are merely “ministerial” and not punishment?
a registrant
Unless otherwise noted, the public can sit in on hearings, sentencing etc. I have personally sat in on cases (To further my understanding and get a feeling for what judges are more understanding)
Certain judges lean more on what the prosecution is serving for lunch and some are more open minded and take both sides into consideration. I won’t name the judge that sentenced me, but I would not wish her on Charles Manson, that is how bad she was. Even my laywer was in tears and had to throw up in the hallway after my sentencing.
And although it took me doing almost half of my sentence to win an appeal, the charges were not disputed but the sentencing. My lawyer had the foresight to wait for another judge to be seated in her place before proceeding a 3rd time. That new judge is now on the Florida Supreme court. Wish I could get before him with my registry challenge, but that is not the way it works.
Good opinion, but still maddening that they refuse to address the regulatory or punitive issue. That appellate courts seem to go out of their way to avoid that question indicates (to me, at least) that they’re running out of ways to find the registry regulatory and, like most superior court judges, find procedural ways to avoid the issue so they don’t have to make rulings they don’t like.
Dustin
Did you actually read it? The judge ruled and used the exact words that lifetime registration is considered punitive. Click the link and read the ruling. That is HUGE bud
Lifetime registration without due process was ruled punitive, not registration itself. Nor is it new – I’m pretty sure the Doe v. Snyder and Millard v. Rankin courts came to the same conclusion.
Legislatures get around such rulings by narrowing the scope of which offenses can de-register and create a procedure that is near impossible to meet even with a lawyer (which most registrants can’t afford). Then they’ll change it all over again when someone actually does meet their ridiculous requirements to ensure no one else can.
Until the registry itself is found punitive – which everyone on earth, including judges, already know – we’re just going to keep running around in the same circles. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this is a significant victory.
Dustin
They proved they can get away with anything when they retroactived my ass. My charge was from 1991. Was arrested in 1992, sentenced in 1993. No registry was around and no mention by judge or prosecutor. Got released to probation in 1997, same year registry started in Florida. The day I was released I had to report directly to the registration office or be Beheaded by his Royal majesty the King Lawton Chiles, a Democrat Governor.
Where was mine and others chance to bargin? To plea for a lighter sentence? Why different rules for different people at different times? Why applied retroactively without any recourse? Why are people arrested currently able to avoid the registry with permission of the judge but I am on it for life?
So many questions and NOT a single answer.
Link that works
https://law.justia.com/cases/south-carolina/supreme-court/2021/28033.html
It’s impossible to understate how big of a ruling that is…
btw – the link to the pdf isn’t working.
Whoa! After reading the news about Flagler County, this seems to be to good to be true.
What news about Flagler County?