FAC NOTE: If anyone has contact with these two registrants, please have them contact our legal committee so we can offer our organization’s support.
The Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office said two men were arrested Thursday for sexual offender violations
James Agee had exterior decorations displayed and provided candy. JSO also said Agee was dressed in costume and did not have a sign stating “No Candy or Treats Here.” FAC NOTE: He has a young daughter who he wanted to enjoy the holiday.
John Nelson had his porch light on and no sign stating “No Candy or Treats Here.”
AND SOURCE
FAC, please reach out to Dee.
Duval-Jacksonville has one of, if not the highest rate of violent crime (not “sex” crime) in Floriduh and also the 66th (out of 67) highest rate of unsolved crime, especially murder.
https://www.news4jax.com/enterprise/bloodshed-blankets-heart-of-jacksonville-data-shows
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/282222-jax-crime-clearance
You can now see why the resources are being spent on creating “sex offenders.” These are the only “cases” they can solve because they created them! Without having registered citizens as low-hanging fruit, their dismal crime-solving rate would be at down to 5% instead of 17%.
Also, a “teacher” in Texas who beat down a special needs student is allowed to get out of jail on bond, yet a registry technical violation disqualifies you for bond in Floriduh. WTF???
This ¢unt should be charged with a hate crime! Special needs people are a protected class! Especially minors!
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/texas-teacher-free-on-bond-after-assaulting-a-student/
One thing that I don’t understand about the Halloween ordinance is posting a sign on the door and keeping the lights off. How can someone read a sign in the dark? Should they pass an ordinance requiring that the sign be a neon sign, or requiring trick or treaters to wear night vision goggles? May sound stupid but that’s what they are best at. Lol
David
Maybe it is a trap?
If you don’t post the sign, you get arrested
If you post the sign but it is not visible or readable, you get arrested
If you keep the lights on so they can see the sign, you get arrested.
Might as well just turn yourself in and get it over with.
Quoting a phrase from a soap opera that I do not watch but love the phrase:
“like sands through an hourglass, these are the days of our lives”.
This is INSANE! From:
https://www.sidneyherald.com/community/religion/halloween-a-religious-holiday/article_95f12b30-9e0a-11e6-876a-83b38cd8b35a.html
“Halloween is a religious holiday belonging to the Roman Catholic Church. Yes, that seems strange, what with the modern renditions of dancing skeletons and black cats and witches riding broomsticks. The holiday is “All Hallows Day” (or “All Saints Day) and falls on Nov. 1.”
If the date has religious significance for you, regardless of how you celebrate it, it is your right to celebrate it, either alone or with your family and whomever you choose to associate with.
Freedom of Religion. Freedom of Association.
The word Halloween comes from “All Hallows eve”. Somehow Hallows eve became Halloween.
Sorry for a double post My question is Duval County is the largest county in the state yet FAC has no attorneys for this area I know most of them are scared to try and defend you but there has got to be at less one out there that has some BALLS to go up against these Assholes that run the court and county system here in JAX so far I have found none. Please lets get some lawyers here that will fight for our cause in this corrupt county just my opinion
My husband and I live in northern Clay County. We use Gilbert Shaffnit out of Gainesville. He is good but $500/hour.
Gilbert, too, has my vote. He has an understanding of the problems and knows how to get to the crux of the matter. With support of my friends, family, and the ‘victim’, he managed to get me released from probation eleven years early. He is not only active in FAC but also in NARSOL. He gets to see all sides of the matters concerning RC’s and takes a personal interest in resolving injustices inflicted by a system infected by paranoia, false information, and politicians preying on uninformed voters. Sarah F’s enthusiasm is inspiring.
Largest county in the state in what sense ? By geographical region size ?? Miami Dade and Broward are larger by geographical region size. Jacksonville is the most populous ” municipality ” in Florida, but Miami Dade county alone, as well as the area which consists of Dade, Broward and the Palm Beaches (Miami Metro area ) is by far larger in population and geographical region size.
I understand your post and your frustration, but just needed to point that out since it was your intro.
P.S. Also give FAC some credit here please. They are doing everything they can in one of the most hostile political environments in regards to sex offender policies. If it is not FAC, we have nobody else to fight for us here.
When Jacksonville consolidated years ago, Jacksonville became the entire county (Duval) with the exceptions of the beach communities and Baldwin. That makes Jacksonville the largest CITY (but not county) in LAND MASS in the contiguous 48 states. That has been touted for years.
That is interesting information regarding the land mass and Jacksonville’s consolidation.
City, county, metro area, —- South Florida and Jacksonville can go head to head in many categories. Do you really want to debate this ? It is pointless on this site.
I wasn’t sure what the original poster was referring to as to ” large ” since it can refer to many things. I don’t want to get into a debate as to which region is more important and needs more help due to its size, mass or population. What is important is that all of Florida big or small is in need of help. I concluded my post with giving FAC the credit it deserves because they have been working hard for over a decade and in my opinion, has been impressive thus far.
Casey Steele of Steele Trial Law. He got me off probation early. Great guy. Knows the BS we have to deal with and agrees that it’s all crap. Hes off Park St in Riverside. Very reasonable. Will work with you financially. Just Google Steele Trial Law and all his info comes up.
MJ – if you have him contact legal@… we’ll vet him and possibly add him to our directory
Ok I’ll let him know. But What do you mean vet him?? Hes legit. Hes handled my case and some of my roommates and friends and all had sex charges.
You cannot blame F.A.C for wanting to go through the vetting process before putting someone on their page. Imagine if we did not know what we know now about Clearmycase and they put that on their page and we all got scammed ?
I applaud the organization for going through the process of doing their best to make sure anyone they put on their referral page has been somewhat looked into.
They might check their standing with the Bar association. Check some review sites etc to see if there are numerous complaints against them etc. You should be happy, if they are an honest law firm, it is a good thing when they make it onto this sites page. No one knows me or you or any of us so just our word is not good enough to protect others. Wouldn’t you yourself want to know before hiring someone that they are on the up and up? I for one sure do.
Correct – if an attorney purporting to do work in this area can’t rattle a few statute numbers or precedent setting cases off the top of their head, they should not be representing someone in this situation. I’m not saying anyone is or isn’t qualified, just saying that if we are going to promote someone to our members we want to make sure they know what they are doing.
Well Mr. Steele has done wonders for me and 2 other people I know in post conviction work. Yall asked for a guy in the Jacksonville area so there ya go. Do what you want with the info. I’m not going to call him and ask him to call you guys. Just look up his info and call him for your own sake.
Will do, thanks MJ!
Agree, good idea for FAC to reach out to such an individual. Thank you FAC Legal.
Halloween: I rely on option 4 (below) and leave for the day. Note (iii) allows for multiunit lighting. As for Christmas, I haven’t ever been bothered by the Sheriff for having lights or a tree. I would like to see the explanation of how Christmas is primarily aimed at children. I’ll bring my priest to the hearing.
This is the ordinance:
Sec. 685.104. – Prohibited Activities for Sexual Offenders and Sexual Predators; Exceptions.
(a)Prohibitions and requirements for Sexual Offenders and Sexual Predators; Exemption.
(1)It is unlawful for any Sexual Offender or Sexual Predator to participate in any practice or event, including, but not limited to, any event related to a nationally or locally recognized holiday or seasonal event, if such practice or event is primarily targeted toward non-familial children.
(2)It is unlawful for any Sexual Offender or Sexual Predator to wear costumes, clothing, make-up, mask or anything that would alter a person’s appearance in the presence of any non-familial child if such altered appearance could or would entice, attract or lure a child to congregate around, or move closer to, that person.
(3)Any person designated a Sexual Offender or Sexual Predator shall:(i)Avoid all Halloween related contact with children;(ii)From 6:00 a.m. to 11:59 p.m., on October 31 (or any other day on which Halloween is celebrated) post a sign at his or her residence, including a vessel, or vehicle, stating, “No candy or treats here.” Such signs shall be in letters at least two inches high and shall be legible on the property leased, rented, owned or occupied by the Sexual Offender or Sexual Predator, and clearly visible from the street, waterway, or any property that is open to public access. The signs may be removed after 11:59 p.m. on October 31, or the day on which Halloween is celebrated.(iii)Except for lighting provided on a year-round basis by the owner or manager of a multi-family residential unit for the purpose of security or walkway or hallway illumination, leave all outside residential lighting off during the evening hours after 5:00 p.m. on October 31 (or any other day on which Halloween is celebrated).(iv)Not place or allow any display, including but not limited to displays for any nationally or locally recognized holiday or seasonal event or practice, to be visible from the exterior of any Sexual Offender’s or Sexual Predator’s residence, including a vehicle or vessel, or on any property which is leased, rented, owned or occupied by such person, if such display is primarily targeted to entice, attract, or lure a child onto any residence or property, or onto or nearer to any vehicle or vessel rented, owned or occupied by such person. Enforcement of this section shall not be limited to the actual calendar date of any given nationally or locally recognized holiday or seasonal event or practice.
(4)The following is a list of exemptions for Sexual Offenders or Sexual Predators from this section. During any nationally or locally recognized holiday or seasonal event or practice:(i)The Sexual Offender or Sexual Predator may attend if such person is the parent or guardian of the child or children involved and only those familial children are present;(ii)The Sexual Offender or Sexual Predator may attend if the event is held in a location such as a personal residence which would not be attracting or enticing to non-familial children to attend (prohibited locations include, but are not limited to family gatherings in parks, pools, or other locations or places where children could be lured); or(iii)The Sexual Offender or Sexual Predator is not present at the event location although such location may be owned, leased, rented or occupied by such person.
Punishments: arrest, a fine not exceeding $500.00 for each occurrence, or by imprisonment for a term not exceeding 60 days or by both a fine and imprisonment for each occurrence, unless prohibited by law.
People in Duval keep saying that you cannot have a Christmas tree inside your home because of the lights, but the ordinance states: “…primarily targeted to entice, attract, or lure a child onto any residence.” No one puts up a Christmas tree inside of their home to lure a child because that tree simply does not lure a child. Are you sure you cannot “legally” put up a tree inside your resisdence?
Sarah, You can have a tree in the home as long as it’s not visible from the outside. My husband and I just invested in some new wooden blinds for our front windows just for this reason. We went through this debacle last year(we had decorated the outside of the housegasp), hell, I couldn’t even have candles in the windows. The only consolation(if you want to call it that) was we were told we could decorate in our backyard as long as none of the neighbors could see it(yea right)
You are doing the right thing, but I feel the ordinance could be challenged on its vagueness, which would cost too much money for most of us. No one in their right mind would say that a few Christmas lights being shown in a window are put there to lure children, and they do not specifically ban Christmas tree lights within a home in the ordinance. I think that the authorities are “reading” way too much into this ordinance.
Thank you, Andrea, for sharing how your family makes all of this work. Your attitude concerning this matter is an example for all us to follow. Thanks for letting me vent a little.
“ (2)It is unlawful for any Sexual Offender or Sexual Predator to wear costumes, clothing, make-up, mask or anything that would alter a person’s appearance…”
Unless you’re a convicted armed robber who MIGHT want to hold up a local convenience store/gas station. Then, by all means – have at it!
FAC,
Is there any way possible FAC could set up a separate fund to mount a court challenge to this ordinance? I know it takes money, but I can’t imagine it costing anywhere near what a state law challenge costs.
JZ – since the ordinance only covers one county, perhaps we can get the county coordinator to put together a group of registrants interested in funding. If we put up a separate subaccount for a challenge that only impacts one county out of 67, I expect we’ll promote another challenge that will sit underfunded for years. I don’t want to do that.
If we can get ahold of the persons just arrested under it and encourage them to challenge their charges through the PD’s office, we can offer support and the lawsuit costs ZERO.
Duval is not the only county with such an ordinance. A win there will ripple to other Florida counties that have it or are thinking about it.
OK – since our members are asking for it, I’m looking into it.
If FAC puts one up, I’ll donate $100.00 to kick it off. I’ll also continue monthly (at a lower contibution level, based on my financial ability).
This will not reduce my current donation to any other challenge prior to its full funding.
Anyone else on board?
I will do the same.
I can give some money. I do worry, though, that there just are not enough of us to make it work. Registrants in other counties are not going to be able to donate for the causes in Duval because they have so many problems in their own counties.
How I wish that the $55/day that my husband and I will have to pay for his currant incarceration of 24 months could go instead to the FAC lawsuits. I know for you guys the incarceration is a thing of the past that you probably do not want to be reminded of, but this article was in the Jacksonville Florida Times Union this morning, written by The Washington Post Magazine:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2019/10/28/prisons-jails-are-designed-men-can-we-build-better-womens-prison/?arc404=true
This article is too lengthy — but the first eleven paragraphs every citizen in this nation should know. The same things are happening in Florida. I look at what happened in our Clay County jail this past year and the women’s prison in south Florida that has been exposed for what some male guards were doing.
To me, the money that we are going to have to give FDOC is funding modern-day dungeons with some of them being involuntary strip clubs for the viewing pleasure of certain male guards. Just this past spring, our legislature had to pass a bill that female prisoners had the right to be given personal hygiene items and not to have to ask for them from male guards. Why in 2019 would we even have to have such a law — this should all be a “given”. Yet none of these guards are arrested and put on the registry for viewing captive women inappropriately. Where is the me-too movement in all of this? (Just for clarification, I am not a supporter of the me-too movement.) It is all about punishment without any rehabilitation. One prison staff member told a friend of mind that our Florida prisons are just a revolving door that no one really wants to stop because more warm bodies means more money for FDOC. I know the private prisons do not want the status quo to change.
So sorry for getting off on all of this. Back on track here, I would love to see these punitive holiday ordnances done away with in Duval County.
My fiance of whom email im using at this moment is currently incarcerated AGAIN. He was already on community control as well as continued probation for 48 months. 19 months in.. 5 months from being off the monitor atleast he gets arrested fora technical violation. A A violation that apparently was harsh enough to deny a bond. Oh wait… Yeh he was simply denied a bond becasue of his status. I am disabled. And his we have custody of his son now. I was served with a 3 day eviction notice 2 days ago.. Im trying to sell all our material items to help pay bills.. Oh and did i mention hes been in there a month now and has yet to see a public defender… We filed an emergency bond hearing… Yet i keep getting the run around. He has a family. And his orginal SO charge was from 1995.. He has only had 2 jobs in past 18 years. I dont know what to do..
It’s too bad that law enforcement can’t keep real criminals off the streets, but have no problem keeping RSO’s out of their homes and away from their families and family responsibilities. Is there anything that these law enforcement officials can be proud of? They need to hang their heads in shame.
It is a great idea but we are trying to get something going based on emotional roll coaster. Some of us can’t do three donation sat one time. I barely can do two which are EX Post Facto plus and Out of State Challenge. These are great ideas but where is all the funds going to come from? The out of state challenge has been moving at a snail pace and just sitting there on the shelf. I would to see this crap end up in court and egg on the peoples faces when see they they can’t do this to us.
But once again where the money coming from? I have to agree with F.A.C on this one let their Attorneys fight it They have better funds and resources I don’t want to be the bad guy here but unless they decide to fight there really to much any of can to with this craziness! I don’t want to sound like because your not helping on the out of state fund than I not going to help you. This is not the case. You can not fight a three front war…..Ask Germany if u could, I just saying having to many cooks for dish and you burn out the dish
Not looking to dilute the important Out-of-State Challenge. Just hopping mad about what our counties are doing to innocent families. Ideally, if these two have attorneys, then FAC could guide those attorneys. But they appear not to even have representation.
It would be worthwhile for FAC Legal to look into what it would cost and how challenging a challenge it would be. And if it won’t dilute the others, then move forward. Sometimes more challenges raise more money.
Already on this. Join our monthly member call this Thursday for an update.
I know it’s hard for many of us to donate. It certainly is for me. The good news is, as far as I know, there are no mandatory minimums when it comes to donating to FAC. Just do what you can where it matters the most to you. Every dollar counts!
I hope I did not hurt anybody feelings. I just stating my thoughts We don’t even have the post factor relief paid off. I ask everyone to take a break from this angry issues of the stamped id and holiday items.
Jacob is right. In my own county, that is one of the things I pointed out to our county commissioners in their drive to extend the residency restrictions to 2000 feet. I mentioned in my email that courts are slowly starting to rule in favor of registrants as judges are becoming more aware of the punitive nature of these ordinances. I encouraged our commissioners to google what happened in Palm Beach County after a lawsuit was brought against that county because of their punitive resisdency restrictions.
The Jacksonville ordinance that is being questioned is different from the one we are dealing with in Clay County, but it is also punitive. I know that if there is ever a time when county after county and municipality after municipality have lawsuits staring at them and then lose, other counties will start to make some changes. Just look at what the attorney for Palm Beach County told her county, plus the municipalities which she has no authority over.
With all that said, I know FAC cannot do more than it is already doing. But your expertise is great — encouraging these two men to challenge their charges through the PD’s office and letting them know there is some support. I would have had no idea that anything could be done to help them.
Some of you guys out there are so good at finding laws, court decisions, and other very helpful data — an area that I am very weak in. Please, please, can someone find the exact addresses for these two men? The News4Jax article stated that James Agee resides at Challeux Drive South in East Arlington and John Nelson resides at Nicholas Circle East in Spring Park. If I could get their street numbers and zip codes, I would mail a letter to each one today, and they should receive it by tomorrow, letting them know about the support available to them. I could drive to their homes instead, if people think that is a better idea.
This is of great interest to me. We live in Clay County but are only 1.25 miles from the Duval County line.
Thank you guys for all of your help. I could never do any of this on my own.
Sarah, go to the FDLE website, it lists the name and full address with zip code. I too had considered correspondence, I may still do that. I wouldn’t show up at their residence unannounced though, I personally would be suspicious of anyone coming to my door. Good luck in your endeavor.
Thank you, Andrea. So I have finally found one, but only one, good thing about the registry — it gave me the addresses for these two gentlemen. The Lord willing, I will have letters in the mail today to these two men.
Their letters have been mailed. I also encouraged them to join FAC, explained about the Ex-Post Facto and In-Person Challenge lawsuits that could benefit both of them, and let them know about our monthly conference call this Thursday evening.
Mr. Agee may be found at 10948 Challeux Dr S, Jacksonville, FL 32225, according to the public registry.
I see that Mr. Nelson is publicly registered at 2516 Nicholas Circle E, Jacksonville FL 32207-4751
Both appear to have stayed crime-free for decades. I don’t know whether they’re entitled to PD if their ordinance violations were misdemeanors. And I see from Barb S’s research they have been unrepresented. Please, let’s do what we can.
Even though not all of are challenges are fully funded, sometimes an incident like this spurs interest in yet another challenge.
Thank you so much, Exact Addresses, for this information. It is very helpful. Working together like this as a team, we might be amazed down the road what can be accomplished. It is as FAC always says, there is power in numbers.
Funny a gentleman that made the same ex post facto violation as me that made the papers I tracked him down today and had a nice discussion. He happens also a member on here. All you gotta do get their address the. Google the address you’ll likely find a phone number.
Thank you, Doe. I will give that a try.
That’s a great idea! So the arrested parties can file a lawsuit now through the PDs office? Didnt know that. Should be easy to get a hold of their families since both guys info and addresses are on the registry
I have mailed both men, but if anyone else wants to contact them, it will help to show our support.
So about porch lights: For those of us who live on a million dollar property with 10 feet of stone stairs, where is the love for my 68 year old housemate who must turn off the $1000 worth of landscaping lights and cary groceries without use of handrail as he must hold a flashlight. If he trippedb whose fault is it?
Roger, good points. I’ve also thought about situations where a RC lives in a condo complex that controls the outside lights and/outside decorations without any control by the RC. What then? Probably 60 days in jail.
That would be considered common areas that would be out of the control of the offender. I guess people on the offender task force could care less, a win for them.
Although that doesn’t mean the judge wouldn’t be a jerk but any attorney with half a brain could get that dismissed. Sadly, all these BS arrests for things that are out of our control end up running us out of money.
They want us to behave and stay out of trouble but then play with us like we are mice in an experiment, throwing more and more obstacles in our way to see of we screw up.
@Roger and Bill,
The ordinance actually has an exception for such a situation:
“(3) (iii) Except for lighting provided on a year-round basis by the owner or manager of a multi-family residential unit for the purpose of security or walkway or hallway illumination, leave all outside residential lighting off during the evening hours after 5:00 p.m. on October 31 (or any other day on which Halloween is celebrated).”
https://library.municode.com/fl/jacksonville/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITXIXPUSA_CH685SEOFSEPRRE_S685.104PRACSEOFSEPREX
It would be the fault of the criminal regime and it would be great to sue them for damages.
And speaking of which, somewhat unrelated, but when F.A.C. or another organization wins a lawsuit, why are they not always awarded the costs and damages? When private citizens have to pay money to fight off the crimes of these criminal regimes, they should be compensated.
You likely all saw though that even the criminal sheriff of Butts County, GA that recently lost his criminal case was not forced to reimburse the attorney (or NARSOL) for their crimes. It’s wrong.
On the flip side, if an individual sues and loses, should that person be forced to pay? I don’t think so. Because individuals can’t be faulted for trying to protect themselves from the criminal regimes. Further, the courts belong to the criminal regimes so it is their duty to understand early, if needed, if a lawsuit has no merit and dismiss it with little cost. If something has to be fought, then there is some merit to it.
Morgan and Morgan will figure that one out!
I feel this is real issues to address. Before People get their feathers ruffled. I am an Ex Christian,who has been treated better by other people’s religion beliefs. I going to defend this statement. What if a Wicca person or Native American person or Jewish person like Andrea mention would be denied to celebrate their Religion Holiday? Isn’t this a 1st Amendment violation.
If the lawmakers want to argue about the Registry being Civil or Administratation in nature So why the criminal penalties for civil infactions?Perhaps there are those who don’t pay D.U.I fines or Child support aren’t jailed for violating the same civil code of conduct.
I am a very strong Christian and even a graduate of Bible college. I do have to agree, I often times feel more love from non Christians as well. Having said that, they, we and all of us are fist human beings and make mistake and can act crappy towards others.
Christians are not perfect although some think they are. I for sure am far from perfect and try each day to be a better person but if you set the bar too high, you are destined to fail. That is where forgiveness comes in. That does not mean a blank check to do wrong and expect forgiveness.
And I concur, even if I do not agree with another’s religion, I feel they should have the same rights to practice their beliefs as I do. God never forces Himself on anyone and allows us to choose our own path as forced love is not love at all.
Having said that, I choose not to participate in the Halloween, not because of my beliefs. Not because of law enforcement ( I am under no holiday restrictions ) . I do not want to invite trouble here so I act like I am under that restriction to avoid trouble. If I had grandkids, I guess I would take them to a party somewhere to get their candy fix on.
beefstew327, I will pray that you return to the fold. There is no hope on the outside. It is my Christian faith and friends that make this life worth living. Remember, there are those who believe in God, and those who believe that they believe in God. I call that second category “Cross on a necklace Christian”. If a person mistreats you and does not express love and forgiveness, you can know that they are one of the cross on a necklace types. You know them by their ‘fruits’. May God reveal Himself to you through true Christians you come in contact with.
I live in Jax. The only thing those 2 violated was a county ordinance. Of course, there’s no state law against any holiday related activity. Duval county also has an ordinance prohibiting SOs from having Christmas, yes Christmas decorations visible outside or from inside the house. Duval is pretty sensible, but lately they’ve gotten stupid about technical stuff like this. I always thought this ordinance could be fought on the grounds of infringing on our rights of religious freedom and expression. As a Christian, I want to celebrate Christmas and have the right to do so since it is a Christian holiday. Same for Easter. Concerning Halloween, if I’m a wiccan, then I can argue it’s a religious holiday for me. So silly and unnecessary. Just an insane law to keep politicians and cops jobs intact and providing click bait stories for news channels locally. Nothing is gonna stop this insanity. Its like trying to clear all the world’s beaches of sand. It’s an impossible challenge to overcome. ….I know that sounds defeatist, but were trying to fight public perception, news propaganda, politicians, idiot sheriffs, and clueless cops. All of those entities have lots of money and power backing them. Game over for us.
I too have had this very thought, how does this not violate our first amendment rights regarding freedom of religion? If we wanted to put a nativity scene in my yard, or if we were Jewish, and wanted to place a menorah in the window, these very things would be grounds for my husband to be arrested. Don’t despair though, the tide is slowly turning when it come to public opinion, and honestly, until this past year, law enforcement hasn’t been an issue.(for us anyway) It wasn’t until we moved two years ago and landed in the jurisdiction of a female detective with a axe to grind that we’ve had any problems. Ihonestly think most leo’s know they have bigger fish to fry, and think this is all nonsense as well.
Andrea….
Do you live in Jacksonville?? If so, I think I know the female detective you’re talking about. But yes, for the most part the police in Jax know they have bigger issues to focus on and I’ve never had a problem.
For me, I don’t participate in Halloween regardless if I was an RSO or not. For one, I’m single with no kids so there’s no point. But there’s the interesting dilemma of church related “festivals” . My church had theirs on Oct. 30, not Oct. 31 and it wasnt billed technically as a Halloween event so I could’ve gone and helped out and technically not have violated Duvals stupid ordinance.
But for me, the best approach for now is to just avoid anything Halloween related unless it’s an all adult function like a work party, etc… they cant violate you for that. ….but I’ll be damned if they stop me from any Christmas related activities. And I’ll decorate it the tee whatever I want. My landlord put up all white lights for Christmas one year and he told the probation officer its “security lighting”. Lol.
I’d be curious to know if Ron Crook is behind getting these ordinances started too…
But I feel for those guys, but they should’ve known they were taking a risk. It takes 30 seconds to type up the sign and post it on your door and turn your lights off. I know the guy had a kid, but passing out candy and wearing a costume???? Cmon now. Until this stupid sh*t gets overturned, you gotta be smart and vigilant. But hey, they took a gamble that they wouldn’t get caught, and they lost. But at least they lived on the edge for a few hours lol.
MJ – people will have differing opinions about this based on their current life situation. Imagine you did have children, Halloween is huge for them! The dressing up, the going around collecting candy, etc. Same for those who celebrate Christmas. The family celebrations, the decorations, etc. It’s all part of the childhood experience that creates meaningful memories that no child should be deprived of. For those who do have children, imagine they can’t put out a pumpkin or spooky decorations. Imagine all the other children are excited about trick-or-treating or what they will dress up as, but your children can’t because you’re not allowed to take them out and are forced to stay indoors with the lights off while their neighborhood friends are looking at your house.
Many of us could care less about the holiday, but to our children, this is the most important thing in the world at their ages. To be deprived of any rite of passage, religious or otherwise, because their parent did something wrong 20 years ago, is cruel.
Some of us might not care about vehicle registrations because we don’t drive. Some of us might not care about travel restrictions, because we don’t travel. Others might not care about holiday decorations… but I guarantee if not already there will be a registration restriction that one day impacts you, your family, your employment options or some other aspect of your life very deeply and you will desperately want as many resources behind the fight as possible!
I’m fully aware of all of what you said. All of it needs to be addressed and challenged as much as necessary. My point was, and that I feel like I clearly stated, was that as it stands now, those 2 guys were aware of Duvals ordinance and I’m just saying if you’re gonna go against them, you gotta be smart about it and just know if you roll the dice on it, there’s a chance you’re gonna get busted. But I actually give kudos to the one guy that went all out for his kid. He obviously says screw you to the ordinance and unfortunately now hes paying for it. He fought the law, and the law won as they say. I feel for him. But the other guy just simply didnt put a sign on his door nor turn the lights off at 5. Something very minor that I wouldn’t risk going to jail for…..
So I’ll say it again, I understand how big it is to kids and the parents of those kids. But as an RSO, I’ve learned, as we all have im sure, that you gotta be aware of the can and cannots in your county and just steer clear of anything that could get you hemmed up….
My suggestion to the guy with the kid would’ve been to take all the decorations down on Oct 30, put the sign on his door and turn off his lights at his home and take his kid with his wife and who ever else trick or treating on the other side of town or something where he can lay low but still enjoy Halloween with his kid. ….
There’s always a way around things to where you can still get your way and steer clear of any trouble. I know that view is not supported by most on here but its not wrong and it helps in allowing us to enjoy life a little bit in spite of all they try to do to ruin it for us. Be blessed.
And I’m impacted by everything you mentioned, even the damn Halloween Duval ordinance because I still have to type and print and post that stupid sign before I head off to work and make sure my roommates turn the lights off at 6. So I’m impacted trust me and I’m grateful for any and all resources that can be used to fight this garbage
FAC, you are so right on. We don’t have to celebrate anything or we may want to celebrate everything. It’s a matter of personal choice. As long as a person is not harming anyone else or contributing to a dangerous situation, we have the freedom to do as we please guaranteed by the Constitution. Unfortunately we have politicians who are just not pleased unless they can be condemning someone. Children are not children forever and they need to have parental involvement in their young lives. We need to keep up the fight until common sense and justice has charge of the day. Children will carry into adulthood both the bad and good experiences. To try to limit the ‘good’ is a miscarriage of what might appear to be good intentions.
What’s wrong with a law that deprives RSOs’ children of holidays?
After all, our CHILDREN are at stake!
Don’t we want to protect the children?
(Sorry, couldn’t resist).
Nope. Children don’t matter unless they can be used as pawns by the harassers.
We know Registries gravely harm children. We know they’ve gotten some murdered. Registry Nazis/Terrorists don’t care. What they care about is how they feel.
I get what you’re saying, but at the same time neither the county, or the state, is diligent at all in making sure RSO’s are up to date on new ordinances. That detective (Collins is her last name) basically told us it’s not their problem, or responsibility to make sure we are aware of changes. It also seems to be dependent on the mood of said detectives, because we didn’t have a sign out this year about no candy, just a no tresspassing sign on our locked gate at the end of our driveway (I didn’t know about the signs either until this story broke) We chalked this up to we got lucky and won’t forget next year. As far as your situation with the Christmas lighting, there’s an exception for that because of where you live, but you’d better hope your tree isn’t at all visible from the outside, or they will violate you.(unless you’re lucky enough to have a reasonable detective who does your “address verification”)
Andrea—that is exactly who comes out to my place too! She was in a good mood during her verification this year, but you’re right, she can be a you know what. And they will claim that by just giving us that piece of paper with all the do’s and don’ts on it, that we should know EXACTLY what all that mumbo jumbo is saying. You have to have a frickin law degree just to understand what you’re supposed to do. It’s all by design though. They need us to justify their jobs and give them job security as long as they live. That’s all this is.
**And I just put a tree up in my room at the house and have Christmas lights strung up all around my room. (Which I just kept up all year because it provides good lighting in the room lol). So yeah, even though Duval has their stupid rules, I just steer clear of stuff like that, mind my own business, and live my life. No worries.
But if you catch Collins on a good day, she will answer your questions in a detailed manner and can actually be very helpful. It’s all in your approach with her. Just some advice. Good luck.
Well, at least I know that someone has had a reasonable exchange with her. She is just plain rude and condescending, and somewhat patronizing towards us, and if I know she’s coming around, I leave because I’m honestly afraid I’m going to lose my cool with her one day, and jeapordize my husband’s freedom. I hope your Christmas decor is a success, and perhaps one day we can get these assinine rules overturned and go back to just living our lives like everybody else.
I say this again I guess it is better to pick low hanging fruit than to go after what is more riper. I guess Jacksonville police solved the other crimes like the murders,carjackers,drug dealers and gang-related crimes because the news never report this at but more important stuff Like “Candy Bandits” (lol Cherokee JacK) and porch lights violations
🙂 Glad I could input some humor into an otherwise sad situation
Clay County residents, I received a third response from one of our county commissioners. This commissioner stated: “It is apparent there is much work to be done in creating equity and balance within this area. Please continue to educate.”
I do feel our commissioners want to do the right thing, but I know that public pressure by people who are uneducated about certain matters can be difficult to deal with. At the Volusia County recent meet-and-greet, I met a woman who was able to attend the Volusia County commissioners’ meeting when the 2500-foot restriction was voted in. She said that one commissioner was adamantly against the proposed ordinance, voting a strong NO. At least three of the other commissioners were on the fence about the whole matter, definitely showing some reservations, but Sheriff Chitwood sat in from of them glaring at each commissioner as they separately expressed their concerns, finally giving a vote of YES.
What on earth do we do when commissioners are scared of the sheriff? is that a statewide phenomenon? Or are not all sheriffs like Chitwood?
So there ARE sensible commissioners in Clay. But imagine how much damage they would have done already without SarahF there.
And Chitwood doesn’t think we are humans who make mistakes. However look this up. In 2014 Chitwood was stopped going through airport security with his weapon ( Still a crime unless you are the air marshall ). They could have arrested him, he even admitted that, but HE got a free pass as a “Mistake” that could happen to anyone.
REALLY? Then why do all the other law abiding citizens who accidentally try and board a plane with their concealed weapon go to jail, get their license taken forever and get banned from the airline and more?
It is a double standard. Here is the article, he was Daytona police chief when this happened
Chitwood’s boss, City Manager James Chisholm, said Chitwood is human “like all the rest of us,” adding it was “certainly no cause for us to take any action against the chief.”
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-daytona-beach-chief-gun-at-oia-20140827-story.html
In certain legal battles for RC’s, there types of media stories need to be brought up and statements made like “he made a mistake like anyone else does” need to be said verbatim in a court or in legislative sessions where “the people” are allowed in to voice their concerns.
Sarah, it is good to hear that you can get county commissioners to reply to your correspondence, since those in Brevard County are too cowardly to do the same. As far as Sheriff ‘Shitwood’ goes, he is nothing more than a political showman who has found that villianizing those who are least likely to reoffend are an easy target for an uneducated public to focus on. And why not? Would he want to place his career on the line facing a violent criminal or challenge someone who hands out a piece of candy or turns on a porch light? For a LE coward the answer is easy.
I had a few choice words for the News4Jax Facebook comments thread about this. I commented that this was fear mongering (as usual) and I asked the news station why these two being arrested for misdemeanors was more news worthy than the 6 felony drug arrests, the 4 felony gun possessions, the felony (mulitple offender) DUI,(along with another DUI), an arrest for felony battery and finally, a felony arrest for “throwing an explosive in to a dwelling”. Of course, crickets from the news station.
Although the news station didn’t respond, other fb commenters saw your comments, and it probably caused a few of them to think for once.
Thank you, Andrea. I too replied, but my reply was through their online news article via Facebook. Many of the comments made were disturbing and reflected a great lack of knowledge about this issue. It is scary that so many people base their decisions and comments on myths. Where are the “fact check” people?
But maybe more people are getting it than we think. I noticed as of last night, my reply and another reply by someone who knows the research out there had each received more likes than the other separate comments had. This is why we must continue persevering as a group.
News4Jax has always been my favorite local news channel, but it was disturbing to see this story being one of their lead news stories Friday evening when that time slot is always reserved for the most important stories of the day. Thanks for pointing out the real crime stories that should have gone in place of the two registrants, one wanting to take his daughter trick-or-treating and the other having on his front light.
I want to contact the two men involved and let them know to contact FAC’s legal committee, but all I can find out are the streets they each live on. Hopefully someone else has been able to contact them.
What is odd is, I have been bashed on here by people saying “Oh you don’t know what those people went through as a kid being molested”or maybe it is their family members.
But the truth is, 95% of those making comments like offenders should be burned alive etc. are just idiots who also hate black people, gays, Jews or anyone frankly who are not them.Heck, some of them probably have been to prison themselves. Sex offenders are hated even in prison.
It is like my street, the ones who do not like me living on the street don’t even have kids. I have outlived (by way of living here) 75% of my neighbors. Some have said I forced them to move when I wouldn’t. I didn’t force anyone to do anything.
I very much agree with you. I think that unless a person is working on Registry advocacy, is affected by it, or whatever, then any person who would comment on a Registry-related article in a hateful way is almost certainly a pathetic excuse of a human.
Also, I’ve commented on thousands of articles and I have consistently found out that nearly all people who will argue with me for any significant length of time are actually so dumb that it is fairly apparent just with their briefly demonstrated writing and thinking skills. Most of them are that dumb. I expect most have low self-esteem also and it makes them feel better to attack other people. Informed, intelligent, normal people with good self-esteem don’t support Registries. Just my opinion but I’m sure it’s correct. 🙂
Some of your former neighbors said that you forced them to move?! That would make me very happy. I’m glad when Registry Nazis are negatively affected by the Registries. I’m glad when they are upset that I live near them. That is one of the best features on the Registries. If someone told me that I would say, “Good, I’m glad. Who would want to live around you? I hope it affected the value of your home too.”
It is also funny, I looked on the registry map and very few places you can go in my county and not be within a few blocks of someone on the registry. I hope they forgot to check and moved into a house deep between two people on the registry lol
Also when they moved out, a nice couple moved in who actually like me and treat me with respect.
I have lived in my Brevard County home since 2004. With one exception several years ago, I get along fine with my neighbors. One of my best neighbors is a retired NYPD lieutenant. My neighbor across the street has kids who play in front of my home all the time…not a problem. Another neighbor who initially said he wanted to have nothing to do with me, is now a good friend. I have found out in my lifetime that we all have had failures in our lives for a wide range of various reasons. Heaven knows that I saved the careers of several sailors by not holding a one-time failure against them when they were otherwise stellar Navy men. Our character is not defined by a failure. Lies about RC’s have been so blown out of proportion that nowadays a drug dealer or home invader is looked upon as a non-hazard. I thank God for my good neighbors and the restoration of my family…at least that portion of the family that matters. Even families have ‘holier than thou’ members. I rely on Alfred E. Newman for advice about such members…”What, me worry?”
Well I only have one family that gives me grief. When someone new moves in, they take it upon themselves to notify them about me. I keep hoping they will move but they have lived here longer than me.
Plus I know what to expect from them and someone else may be somehow worse LOL
I leave it in God’s hands and realize I cannot control what I cannot control.
I said this to you several times before but never got a response, Thank you for your service. I was born in the Great lakes Naval hospital
My dad was a Chief Petty Officer but I do not think I ever saw him any prouder than the day I graduated from the Naval Academy. We got to fly together in a P-2 “Neptune” before he retired. I was so blessed to be able to serve for 29 years. It was an honor. Thank you for your kind comment.
Thanks for commenting, Will Allen. I have seen some of your comments at media outlets. They are very good and put most other commenters to shame.
Yeah, prisoners don’t like those confined for sexually-based offenses, particularly those involving children. However, I wonder how many of these “virtuous” inmates who threaten, harass, extort, assault, rape, and kill those doing time for a sexual offense against a child would readily murder a child witness to silence them in a capital case? How many of these same men would see a child witness as a “loose end” that needs to be eliminated?
Yeah when I was in the county jail, there was an elderly man who had a sex offense. Not sure how everyone found out but a big huge thug of a guy was giving him a hard time saying things to him I wouldn’t say to anyone.
Anyway, when I bonded out, I looked up the guy who was threatening the old man, and that guy had murdered a family during a home invasion.
Yeah that precious Angel’s charges were wayyyyy better than the old mans.
I did some research This evening and both of these individuals appeared before Judge Michelle Kalil on Nov 4th. in Duval co Court. Neither had any representation of record . The Asst.states attorney was Jamie Virginia Cona,
both men plead nolo contendere, Mr Agee was sentenced to 2 days given time served 2 days and adjudicated guilty and charged $303. in fines due Dec 2. Mr Agee’s case comes from an register-able offense from 1995 when he was slightly over 18. Nearly 25 years ago
Mr Nelson plead nolo contendere as well but for some reason adjudication was withheld he was given the same $303. fine which is due Dec 2 as well. Mr Nelson’s register-able offense happened in 1989 . Nearly 30 years ago.
This is a travesty of justice and IMHO these men and their families have had their civil rights violated.
Someone please get them appellate lawyers FAST.
This is great research.
Dear Robin and anyone else who is interested, below are links regarding the Duval County Ordinances about sex offenders and Halloween. Note, the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office info is repeated verbatim by the media post. This means the media is not interested in the truth, only whatever propaganda a LE agency spews.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/action-button/rules-for-sexual-offenders-and-predators-on-halloween-in-duval-county/1002353753
https://www.jaxsheriff.org/News/Halloween2019-Sexual-Offenders-and-Predators.aspx
Yes, a nice copy-and-paste job by NewsFurJax!
Everyone can sleep better that these two candy bandits are off the streets. Shame on those guys ( MAJOR sarcasm )
I can understand they broke the rules but often people like this get sentenced and it looks like they committed another sex crime.
Having said that, if they did not follow the rules and got caught, the judge is not going to give them any leeway, or feel sorry for them. Possible but not likely.
But since these were county ordinances, am I correct in saying they cannot be sent to prison — it would have to be a few days in the county jail?
Would not be a long sentence. But they and their families have been tarnished in the media. And they may have hurt their ability to petition out of the registry in the foreseeable future.
It absolutely has, because according to the stipulations to get off the registry, you cannot be arrested, period, not arrested and charges dropped or even filed for that matter, just arrested.
I am not a conspiracy theorist but do believe that is the back office plan. To get as many offenders violated on a minor infraction of the rules so as to not ever be able to get off the registry.
A lot of those on the registry do not know that before a law suit, NO one could get off the registry. A judge ruled there had to be a path to redemption. Well Florida made it so hard and so long that most cannot or will not ever reach that time. Either 20 or 25 years and not from when you were arrested but starting from the first day you were off all paper.
Cherokee Jack – where do you find that ruling?
Universal Citation: FL Stat § 943.04354 (2013)
2013 Florida Statutes
TITLE XLVII – CRIMINAL PROCEDURE AND CORRECTIONS
Chapter 943 – DEPARTMENT OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
943.04354 – Removal of the requirement to register as a sexual offender or sexual predator in special circumstances.
Can’t find much else because most site do not show when these statues were implemented but I know for a fact that before this ruling, I had to register for life ( I still do ) without relief, but not can attempt to do so under that statue after 25 years off paperwork without any arrests. (still up to a judges discretion)
Before this statue , whatever year it was amended, every person on the registry was for life, as far as I know, with no hope of redemption.
Sorry I do not have a more definitive answer but you can ask anyone else in here who has been on the registry since it was created in 1997 like myself, that we had to be on for life no ifs, and or butts then the ruling gave us a 1% bit of hope. That was not always the case. I tried to call an attorney to find the information for me but he wanted me to pay him for the research . He wouldn’t even tell me how to out when a statue went into effect.
This is not a ruling, this is a Statute.
in 2006 it was changed to 25 years from 20 years.
The removal section (Section 11) was added in 1998.
Ok ruling ,statue, I titled it wrong. I guess in legal speak you need to say what you mean specifically lol
But yes, the point I made was that was at least some progress, maybe some more will come sooner than later with the Help of F.A.C , those in this group, attorneys and other advocacy groups and any who care about rights and justice.
Law enforcement, cities and counties keep trying to see what they can get away with legally or otherwise knowing that it takes time to get a ruling, hearing or judgement on the legality of such new “Safety measure” they cram down our throats.
Just like in Texas where a judge ordered several offenders back in the past to have bumper stickers branded them as such. The judges reasoning was that not everyone goes on the internet and everyone should know about these offenders.
The bumper stickers are similarly worded, warning motorists and pedestrians that there is a “Registered Sex Offender in Vehicle”
I bet every time you came out to your car it would be vandalized.
Citation noted
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may/30/usa.world
I don’t think I’d worry about being “tarnished”. Anyone who would care about this is not a person to be concerned about. Most people and their opinions aren’t worth a bucket of piss.
And I don’t know about these people in particular but the real problem that this would cause for me is that I would not accept it without retaliation. Just being honest. I made a promise to myself long ago that anything Registries did to me, that I would retaliate in magnitudes. I have so far. Being arrested is grounds for very serious damage.
@SarahF,
Penalties in the ordinance:
“(c) Penalties. With regard to enforcement of this section, the City and the Sheriff’s Office may pursue any enforcement action or legal remedy available under the controlling state law and any legal remedy available to the City, to include, but not limited to, injunctive relief, arrest, a fine not exceeding $500.00 for each occurrence, or by imprisonment for a term not exceeding 60 days or by both a fine and imprisonment for each occurrence, unless prohibited by law.”
https://library.municode.com/fl/jacksonville/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TITXIXPUSA_CH685SEOFSEPRRE_S685.104PRACSEOFSEPREX
(d) Separate violations. Each separate occurrence of any conduct prohibited by this section shall be a separate violation.”
This could actually be a good thing. Imagine the scenario where competent lawyers like those who handle cases for FAC and NARSOL get these ordinances ruled as unconstitutional. Keep fighting everyone!
And these two would make great plaintiffs! They have been crime-free for decades, and the arrests harmed their families and at least one little girl— in the name of protecting children!
Were these Registrants on Probation? If not, why is it a crime to have their outside lights on? Also, why would they have to have a sign on their lawns?
Because Duval county sucks. The county has an ordinance stating those on the registry have to have their lights off from 5pm-midnight and a sign stating “no candy here” hung where visible. Also, those on the registry cannot decorate for Halloween ((or Christmas for that matter,but that’s a conversation for another day)
They were not on probation and violated county ordinance.
Isn’t it sad when a county , or city ordinance can over rule or go beyond a state statue ? Just like some places have a 1500 foot rule from a school, others say 500 feet. Some say 1000. So confusing no wonder more offenders do not give up and go back to prison.
What is sad is that anyone who lives in America ever thought those “laws” were acceptable. That is what is sad.
But we know that America has been a hateful, idiotic, immoral country for our ENTIRE history. This is just the latest. I wonder if we will ever be a moral country.