Hot off the press is the following Order from the US District Court from the Eastern District of Michigan.
Michigan – Final Order 06212021
While it’ll take a few readings to understand and be able to explain the full impact of the order, we didn’t want to delay distribution of this information.
At first blush it seems to be good news, as the court concluded that the new version of Michigan’s SORA cannot apply retroactively to people whose offenses predated March 24, 2021.
Many thanks to Gerald for being the first to come through with the excellent Final Order, and for generally staying on top of this and making sense of it all.
Agreed!
Thank you for the compliments Jacob and FAC. However, I’m afraid that the Judge did still leave some vagueness for us to worry about. If he declared the old law null and void, shouldn’t he have also ordered every name on the old registry created by the old law stricken from the registry? That would have made his Ruling completely unambiguous. I will keep praying for common sense to prevail over these scarlet letter laws.
My interpretation of the order, is after Aug 25, we should have a letter from MSP letting us to know how to proceed. The unconstitutional issues could Not be separated, so 06 & 11 admdmts are done.
Yes, Fred. In fact, the Judge threw out the ENTIRE old law prior to 2021. However, even though his prior response to the motion asking him to issue a final ruling in the case said that the new SORA couldn’t be applied retroactively, he seems to have backed off of that stance in the final judgment, because the new law hasn’t been challenged in the lower courts yet. Takes years for such an appeal to reach the federal court again. And there is plenty of objectionable stuff in the new SORA. We can’t hold the Judge to what he said about it not being retroactive earlier, because that was merely a response to a motion, not a ruling issued in the case that would carry the force of law. Apparently, that would still place people on the registry who committed their crimes before a registry even existed. It will be interesting to see what the state comes up with, but I am not going to get overly hopeful. The main thrust of the new law was that it did get rid of school exclusion zones, but it still treats us like moral lepers.
Thanks Gerald. Reread the order. Tired of it all. Interpreted what I wanted to, not actually what was there. Hopefully the final order instills a resolve from the state. Again, wishful thinking. Not sure if any pressure could be applied to the state.
I am of the understanding that since a previous law cannot be revived, and the legislature totally rewrote SORA and the new portions cannot be severed, then at least everyone whose offense occurred prior to the enactment of 2011 SORA should not have to register. I have filed a 6.500 motion in my trial court for removal, and they refuse to take that motion up.
That’s because there’s litigation still pending in court. Courts are not going to hear cases that deal with the same issues that’s already in the class action. Doing things like this is only going to hinder us. That’s why the ACLU told us not to file any individual cases.
Been on hit list since 07. Tier3. The state is like Lucy promising not to pull the football away from charlie brown. Every damn time. Sorry for the dated analogy. I’m done playing football.
I was convicted in 1992, before there was a registry and still got out on it. My original 25 years was up last year 6-19-2020. Guess what still on it.
Bobby S, if I’m not mistaken, one of the original plaintiffs in Roes v Snyder was also convicted of a crime that occurred before existence of Michigan’s registry law. It will be interesting to find out if that person gets removed from the registry. The biggest problem is that the Judge refused to be definitive in his final ruling. Saying that we can still be subject to the new law is like saying that the concept banning retroactive punishment means nothing. He should have taken his statement in a prior Motion ruling that the new SORA can’t be applied retroactively, and included it in his final ruling on the case. The Judge did order names and addresses of all of the class members, including you and me, disclosed to the plaintiff’s lawyers and ACLU so that they can personally notify us, but what if their notification differs from what the State Police sends us? I have a strong feeling that the new SORA is going to end up back in the courts very quickly.
Judge Cleland’s final ruling has been published.
https://www.mied.uscourts.gov/PDFFIles/16-13137DoesFinalJmt.pdf
Looks mighty good to me!
Who is Saddles from now on I will use my real name which is James and yes I want to thank Cherokee and Brandon for standing up for me a bit. See its standing up the right way makes all the difference. Myself I look at this whole registry in a biblical prospective. Yes I have had friends that have came out of Prison on stupid things such as non support of slapping their spouse in the face, possession or moonshine, figure that one out or other issues. Use to drink with them but this issue we are all in is a bit different. Sure that was years ago but holding someone after prison in these ordeals is a bit overkill.
Sure being in compliance is good if one can comply in the proper manner. Controlling factors are a bit inhuman and bias. Understanding this whole registry is bad enough. And as FAC said one can file a complaint. Even this site or forum has compliance rules. I believe some President once said their is nothing to Fear but Fear itself and that was the a few years before Pearl Harbor. They even let my uncle and his friend out of prison for stealing a car to fight the war. Sure a lot of things are different today. Is this registry wrong… Yes in many ways and means.
Saddles
Do not let anyone force you to leave. If you leave, it should be your decision. Sometime adults can act like children (Including myself, I have always been a big kid but that is what keeps me from going insane).
MI Supreme Ct.: registry laws are punitive
https://all4consolaws.org/2021/07/michigan-supreme-court-declares-sex-offender-laws-are-punitive/
Jacob, it is certainly good news that it looks like the Michigan Supreme Court is finally falling in line with what has already been found by the federal court in regard to Michigan’s law. But looks like they are leaving it up to Judge Cleland’s final judgment to outline the specifics. Let’s hope it comes soon.
Here is the part I like
The Court based its decision upon the ex post facto clauses of both the Michigan and the U.S. Constitutions.
That last line “AND the U.S Constitutions.”
That is what matters. Yes we can use example from other states but this court stated the truth, that even the U.S Constitution says you cannot retro actively apply punishment of a new law for something you did in the past.
People like myself and others. My incident was from 1991. They did not apply registries here until late 1997. But I am on it for life with no chance for removal. And no, not listed as a predator.
I think the critical part was finding much of the Registry to be punishment. Without that funding, the ex post facto clauses would not have even come into consideration.
*finding
Funding works as well LOL F.A.C says they can sure use it.
Absolutely right, David. That word “punishment” was what we were looking for. That is always the test for whether a law is unconstitutionally retroactive. Of course, we on the registries always knew that we were continuing to be punished long after serving our sentences and paying off our debt to society.
David
If we ever (As a collective) ever get off this lifetime registration, I want to meet a bunch of people on here and have a B.A.P. (A Big Ass Party.) Handshakes, hugs and hopefully not covid masks. Lots of spiked punch , Caviar, um no (Gross) Ok maybe Porter house steaks.
Maybe this will be of some use to someone:
Michigan Public Radio: Federal judge clarifies how to enforce changes to Michigan’s sex offender registry.
https://www.michiganradio.org/post/federal-judge-clarifies-how-enforce-changes-michigans-sex-offender-registry
So the deadline has passed for the parties to file their proposed final judgment.
I’m assuming the parties did file their proposals, and we should hear something from Judge Cleland soon. The July 12 deadline does not mean Cleland has to enter his final order that day.
Give him time.
Well, yeah, Judge Cleland needs time to read the parties’ submitted proposals and decide what he might (or might not) incorporate into his final decision.
What would be really helpful for us in general would be if some folks could put together a list with accurate information regarding how these various state registries actually work. Klaas Kids has had a table for years that used to give a fairly decent explanation of how the state registries worked, at least as applied to people convicted in the particular state they were talking about. What we run into often is a state that says oh you can get off of the registry in 10 years 15 years 20 years you say great. But then you find out that only applies to people convicted in the state. I thought for a while that Indiana would be a possibility. Then I find out that they put anyone coming into the state even Indiana people that had left the state and come back, on the lifetime registry. No the federal court there in the Eighth Circuit knocked that law down here recently, but as we’ve discovered from Michigan and a bunch of other places in the comments of our local sheriffs in Florida, court decisions don’t mean crap. Likewise, I’m sure that very few of us knew that if you were an offender in Florida, not a predator, and you moved to Vermont, you would fall off the registry after 10 years from end of sanctions without even having to request it. In my case my probation ended in June 2006 and had I moved to Vermont and say July 2016, I never would’ve had to register. There are other states, like Massachusetts, where you’re on for 20 years unless you’re a predator, but you can petition after 10 years to get an early release from registration. The problem is you first have to move to Massachusetts and then find out if you qualify for that reduction in time. They were other places like Washington, Oregon and Colorado we’re an out-of-state her either might be able to get off the registry and as little as 10 years after sanctions and or not be on the public registry. That was the case in Washington until some local politician sued to allow private entities like those idiots in Long Island and apparently in Seattle to create their own little registry for the tier 1 offenders. We have heard of many states saying that an out-of-state offender is automatically Deemed a lifetime registrant just because they’re from out of state. The normal more lenient registration requirements do not apply to us. We’ve seen that in places like Rhode Island where they say our rules are your rules which ever or worse and we seen that in other places too. Ohio is a good example where half of the registration rules were knocked down by the federal courts and state Supreme Court, but is our compatriot Derek Logue discovered, no the old rules nor the new rules apply it out of stators. He was from Alabama and got a lifetime registration for a relatively minor offense and they just made that the rule for him in Ohio, even after their rules were gutted by the courts. On the other hand we have places like Georgia where the state was hammered by their own courts in the federal courts and when they rewrote the laws, they applied them to everyone equally. even out of staters. And then you have kind of the Inbetweeners like Tennessee where the rule for most of us would’ve been 10 years and we’ve been convicted in Tennessee, but the way it works for folks from out of state is either 10 years total or five years on the Tennessee registry which ever is longer. The problem is that if you’re on the registry all of the residency restrictions and Internet rules apply to you. From what I have found, Georgia seems to be about the only place where you can go and have a Decent chance of getting off of the registry after a while and you can afford. That’s the problem with Vermont these days. Even the southern parts of Vermont near Massachusetts are no longer cheap like they were four years ago. The big metro area around Burlington which contains about half the population of the state, was never cheap. My long winded point being it would be nice to have this kind of information all in one place . We have seen the ongoing development of the international Megans law list for various countries, but I think this would be much better information for a lot of us.
Not to worry, JoeM, the Federal SORNA will fix all…… Or it will turn it all into an even bigger cluster*uck – if that’s even possible!! 😖🙄
The court held a retroactive punishment of the 2011 amendments to SORA can not be served. Could some one who actually knows what this mean please tell me in laymens terms. Does it mean that the 2011 Amendment can no longer be applied to people like my self who are pre-2006 and 2011. I’m actually pre- 1995 , so hopefully this means people like my self will finally be removed from the stupid registry. My original 25 year registry was up last year. June 19th 2020. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Bobby, the wording is cannot be SEVERED.
Sever means to “cut “. So what it means is the 2011 amendments are so deeply interwoven into the sora law, that it cannot be just taken out, or “cut out, removed, etc.” without the entire law becoming a mess.
That is why the Michigan Legislature was ordered to write a new law, which they actually did not do. They just amended it, removing certain portions that could be removed without rewriting the entire law.
Bobby, as Disgusted in Michigan pointed out, no one seems yet to be adhering to everything in the original rulings. What will this judge’s final order do? He hinted at this most recent writing that he may be inclined to let some of the old law still be enforced. He also seems to concede that the new amendments will likely face new court challenges. All we can do now is hope his final order will accomplish something of value.
Not only did the Judge say that the 2011 amendments could NOT be severed in his ruling last year, he also stated that because of that the old law could not be applied IN TOTAL to those who committed their crime prior to 2011. Then in his recent order last month he said that the new law MAY NOT be applied retroactively to those individuals convicted before 2011. Properly considered together, it means that those whose crimes were before 2011 should actually have no current Michigan law requiring them to register. The complication is that the Judge ordered the parties on both sides to submit an agreed upon final order. If the plaintiffs compromised with the state, it could still leave people like you and me on some kind of a registry. The Judge hoped that the parties would come to a compromise agreement to lessen the chance of further appeals. I hope that they didn’t agree. I hope that the final order stays completely in the Judge’s hands, and that he remembers his last 2 orders stating that both the old SORA and the new amended one are unconstitutional and can’t be applied to those whose crimes were before 2011. It really is what his rulings on the law were, and the plaintiffs MUST hold him to that.
Disgusted in Michigan, you just touched on one of the truly saddest parts of the public’s hatred of convicted sex offenders. Even though the law classifies them as violent offenders, most are very kind and peaceful. I was moved to a sex offender treatment unit for 2 years in prison. I was finally in an environment where I didn’t have to worry anymore about having my belongings stolen. No more fights in the restrooms. Everyone treating each other with respect. I personally spent much of my time in prison protecting little guys who were being preyed upon by thugs. Even corrections officers who didn’t want to work in the units housing “those” guys changed their minds after seeing how much more peaceful it was there. My girlfriend never wanted to get involved with me because she saw my name on the registry. But once she got a chance to know me as her nextdoor neighbor, she could tell that I was a very good guy who did something wrong in the past, but was never going to do it again. But it still hurts me that she will be exposed to judgmental opinions from others for being with a sex offender.
Ed C:
You are absolutely right. Anyone who defies the law risks imprisonment if they lose the gamble. This is a very tough decision for someone who has a family. If you have a family or actually are becoming successful in life, compliance is the most prudent course of action. You have to swallow your pride and register.
If you can’t get any traction because of the registry and are living under a bridge you have nothing to lose. If you “lose” you will be fed and housed at state expense for a few years or perhaps decades if you live in Texas. If you win on a false arrest claim you will probably net $5,000 to perhaps $50,000 for your troubles. This is a very bad bet for someone making $50,000 a year but a good bet for the guy living under the bridge.
You cannot get an appellate decision unless you assert your rights and don’t back down. The problem is that if a prosecutor concedes on the constitutional issue and dismisses the case, there never will be an appeals decision.
Someone has to make that sacrifice. Some one has to be the Jesus Christ of the registry and risk crucifixion in order to get a supreme court decision. Many have asserted their rights and have gotten their cases dismissed because most prosecutors know that the registry is unconstitutional and they can render the case moot by dismissal. It will take that one registrant to go all of the way facing that one prosecutor that won’t back down. The registrant would spend a lengthy time in prison in order to get that decision. But until that one registrant and that one prosecutor take this to the Supreme Court everyone on the registry will be living in legal limbo.
In the early years of the registry registrants were on the losing end in court. They are still on the losing end but are finally getting favorable decisions that the U.S. Supreme Court will have to address, i.e., the recent victory in South Carolina. We have gotten these favorable decisions because of the shear number of registrants who have said “Enough!!” and have gotten their cases to the appellate level. It is only a matter of time until one of these registrants makes it back up to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court kicked the can down the road in Connecticut and Alaska. At some point in time the Supreme Court must decide on the constitutionality of the concept of registration rather than dispensing with a collateral issue. It’s going to take a lot of “Jesus Christ” registrants making the sacrifice until that one “Jesus Christ” registrant makes it to the Supreme Court.
Detroit
When I was in the county jail, I talked to a guy once in there. I asked him why he had been to jail more than 30 times (The guard told me that). He said he was homeless and he does petty stuff to get arrested. He knows he will have a place to sleep, a shower and a hot meal at least.
He also mentioned that he was hoping to get some medical assistance but I found out also, it takes an act of God to get any real medical assistance in the jail or prison. I nearly died and had to call my parents to have a lawyer to call to get any treatment when their was an outbreak in the work camp I was in.
Detroit, I don’t understand why you continue to encourage people to put their own liberty at risk. You can’t win a false arrest claim for a law that is on the books. You can’t claim false arrest if it results in a conviction. You can’t win a false arrest claim without a damn good attorney whose fees will soak up most of the judgment award. Attorneys don’t take contingency cases for lawsuits based on a novel theory with no history of success and little chance. There are 5 claimants in the original Does v Snyder case. It has been years since they brought their case, and none have filed a civil lawsuit for damages based on violations of their constitutional rights. There is no false arrest if the law on the books is in effect. There is no false imprisonment unless you are later proven to be not guilty. If you want to become a martyr for the cause, please do something to get placed on the registry and then refuse to comply. But don’t try to manipulate others into doing your dirty work. Don’t try to trick an indigent homeless person with phony promises of financial reward if they just suffer in prison for awhile. I was in Michigan prison for 12 years. I was homeless afterwards for a short time. I ate better as a homeless person on food stamp assistance than those on Michigan’s miserable prison diet do. Nothing more motivating than living under a bridge. Nothing more depressing than staring at razor wire day after day. Jesus knew who he was and that his suffering would only last a day. This registry thing isn’t going to be solved in a day, or 3 days. Most of us have already wasted years of our lives behind bars. We don’t need to be encouraged to waste more time locked up on a gamble that is nothing more than that, a gamble with odds stacked against us. You claim to be well off. Why don’t you offer someone $50,000 up front to be a martyr for you? After all, you are certain that such a martyrdom will succeed. But if you are or were a police officer, you surely know that it is a crime to encourage others to violate the law. The ACLU is STILL advising registrants to comply with the registry requirements until the final order is issued and everyone is informed about what it means. Any advice other than that is simply irresponsible and reckless.
Excuse me Detroit but no man is an Island. I wonder if Trump said that or maybe it was the Boston Strangler. Sure I got involved in this registry… why was it out of a crude mouth or because none of those on the registry were getting any justice or maybe some vanity of justice. Look at ACSOL and Janices struggle. Even NARSOL’s Sandy and others striving to understand this panacera cancer of justice.
One wonder who is stabbing who in the back with this sex type curse or who actually murdered Cain. Was it that Jezebel or that good guy or bad guy mentality or who finish’es last. Sure we all hold out on hope but is this Recroactive Justice man’s way of thinking beyond his or her means. Detroit you talk about troll’s or who spy’s out the enemy or who is having a bad day or chronic fatigue syndrome. Whould not you think this sex offender registry could be a type of mental strain on those caught up in much of this. Oh yes and the inprisonment of it all and also the suffering.
Detroit lighten up in your Mr. Goodie too shoes or should you go back to your bojangles or even a Tiny Tim song and dance. Myself and many don’t know you from Adam on here or are you eating Archie and Meathead left over meatballs, or maybe you are trying to judge a total eclipse of this black hole justice when one don’t know anything about it or who has their pants down today in this American Justice.
Note that I didn’t say Eve as she was naked also. So is judgment naked today in many respects. Oh and Cherokee don’t worry about the past as that will take care of itself. Pressing on for justice is a better quality.
I wish your words were pertinent to the discussion.
You’re off topic ramblings are super distracting
While I’m trying to think logically you’re speaking about god and random nonsense.
Jacob:
I have no criminal history. I have never been arrested in my life.
You missed the things this clown has been posting on other sites.
If you want to read nasty, read his post directed to me on ACSOL’s site. I responded to his post with the facts and ACSOL refused to post my comment and allowed his rude comments to stand. Someone mentioned I commented on this site and he specifically said that he will come to this site to “troll” me. You have to read his posts in context.
People who are on the registry need people who are not on the registry if they are to accomplish anything in ending the registry. This clown admitted that he is only trolling on theses sites and trying to cause trouble. ACSOL chooses to be a forum for this clown’s mischief. Non-registrants are actually the ones making the bulk of these changes. Look at what Miriam Aukerman has done. The ACLU doesn’t handle only this issue, it handles many issues. Miriam Aukerman has put an extraordinary amount of time in these various sex offender cases. Read her brief in Temelkoski. I disagreed with the argument the attorney used in the Michigan Court of Appeals and developed a new argument. I dropped everything and worked 7 days a week to redo the argument in the time frame allowed. The ACLU picked up the case and I sent the argument to the ACLU. The ACLU used the argument I developed and won in the Michigan Supreme Court. The point being that Miriam Aukerman put an extraordinary amount of time into Temelkoski. Miriam Aukerman is one of the lower paid attorneys. For what she is paid most attorneys wouldn’t have put 100 hours into this case. You can tell that Miriam Aukerman put hundreds of hours into Temelkoski and then many more hours with the updates in this case that she is not getting paid for. She has sacrificed time with her family and a lot of other time for sex offenders that she did not get paid for. Many registrants have thanked her for her hard work and sacrifice. Others like this clown choose to troll her. Look at the comments registrants post on ACSOL. Many state this 9 years of litigation was a waste and that they will never get off of the registry and they blame the ACLU and Miriam Aukerman in particular. They have no idea of the hard work that Miriam Aukerman and Professor Ringold put into these cases. What Aukerman and Ringold did was extraordinary. These self-centered clowns are on the registry because for a brief moment they were more concerned with their own desires than for their victims. They were placed on the registry for their actions. The registry is unconstitutional and more punishment than what they deserve. Some in society recognize that our rights are intertwined with their rights and choose to support them even though we disagree with their actions. Read what Thomas Paine said almost 250 years ago, “He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression, for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself”. This is timeless advice. My liberty is intertwined with this guy’s liberty even if he trolls me. My liberty is intertwined with every person on the registry even though I have never been arrested for a sex offense. We need robust debate and forums like FAC and ACSOL are important to that debate. There are self-centered fools in this debate who are on the registry for their own actions but choose to wallow in their selfpity and troll those who are trying to make a contribution in this fight. It is particularly galling when they show ingratitute towards the ACLU and Miriam Aukerman in particular. Some of the moderators on these sites show poor discretion when they allow these trolls to post. It is even worse discretion when they don’t allow others to lay out the facts to offset these trolls.
Go to ACSOL’s site and read disgusting in Michigan’s comments. He admits to being a troll and admits he likes to sabotage others in this debate. He gets off on crawling under other people’s skin and then getting a reaction from the person he trolls. This is why I rarely respond to his comments.
Read his comment in this post. He intentionally misinterprets this case to make it look like a loss. Gerald corrected him. These trolls add nothing to the debate and are here to only spread misinformation and serve as a distraction.
We owe a big debt of gratitude to Miriam Aukerman & MI ACLU for what they are doing. On that we should all agree.
Ok Detroit while we can all be impressed with your little resume accomplishments should we all get down on someone else. Should police officers, judges, committee’s, etc come to some unity on this registry subject or who gives second chances when it comes to issues of a sexual nature or even harming another whether in words or deed. Sure one has to look at the spiritual aspect of this registry and the physical aspects also. Does not the bible talk about words and deeds?
Sure I use to love the Ali and Coesell debates back than but how many knocks in the head does one need to come to ones senses. So do even authorities practice what they preach or is counsel setting fire to offend another in much of this registry ruse activity, or should one make a mistake in life. Sure one’s conscious can get the best of another but we still have our defenses in many ways to speak up. You carry a gun big deal. You ride a bike big deal but what about the truth and justice we all seek. Sure one can be penalized so were is the retroactive methods of all this or the re-debate of all this or should one take another look at one’s pricipals or who’s lead one away in much of this rape type situation. Even a court system couldn’t figure out whether or not to demote a president out of office with two inpeachments. This whole registry needs to be banned in many ways in many ways.
Saddles.
You are thoroughly confusing.
Nothing you say corresponds to the topics bring discussed. You keep asking very random, comical questions. The seriousness of the topic requires some moderators to delete his comments.
@ Jay: IMHO, “Saddles” might be a troll hiding down a rabbit hole.
I don’t know if he’s a troll or not. Not one single thing Saddles has ever written has ever made any sense to me. Like an old Star Trek episode where they all got some alien disease that made them rattle off completely nonsensical, unrelated words to whatever they were actually trying to say.
Alice
Why pick on the guy? We all have different ways of writing and expressing ourselves. He sometimes confuses me as well but he has never (As far as I know) threatened anyone or done any harm.
We are made up of a soup bowl of different races, ages, educational backgrounds etc.
If you don’t like him, just pass over his posts and read one you do like.
Just my two cents worth. Ganging up on someone can cause someone to leave and we need more people on here not less. And they allow comments on here by people who have actually threatened to kill all of us. So if Saddles get kicked off just because he may not write as eloquently as others, but they allow people to harass and threaten us, I would be the first to stop coming on here.
If you have a specific complaint about Saddles that makes you think he is up to no good, please share it? He may ramble on a bit but I do as well sometimes. We are all just frustrated as Hell about being put on the registry well after we were sentenced and for life for that matter with no hope of ever getting off.
CherokeeJack
I completely agree with you about Saddles. There have been comments made where we argue with each other over opinions and I decided to leave a site for almost a year. Last week I was upset when a person commented something like, “ If sex offenders were educated they wouldn’t of committed a sex crime.” Usually I don’t respond to people who comment blanket judgements; however that day a friend who is in our shoes recently released from prison, saw that comment and threatened to comment suicide, and I also saw the infamous, “ Protect Kids. Shoot a Sex offender.” Bumper sticker. I’m not the greatest writer but I’m not afraid to speak my mind. Hopefully I never have offended others by my comments.
Brandon
Thanks for your support and comments on here. I have never met anyone on here but feel I have made some friends. Stay strong, and keep the faith. I and others may never get off the register but I know one day regardless of what I did in the past, the only judge I answer to is the Creator.
I cannot undo what I did (Man if there were really time machines) but I can make sure I never ruin my or anyone else’s life ever again. As long as it is something I can control. for example if a tree on my property falls on the neighbors house during a storm and hurts or kills someone, I have no control over that other than cutting all the trees near my house.
Disgusting in Michigan:
I did respond to your post but ACSOL’s censors would rather post from a loser than someone who is actually doing something productive to take down the registry.
First, I want to thank you for admitting on ACSOL’s site that you are a troll.
Let me see. You were complaining that you were bumped up from 25 years to life. That’s a pretty short list of offenses. Let me guess, penetration of a child under 13?
You are on the registry because of your willful actions and rather than accept responsibility for your actions and move on with your life you wallow in your self-pity and try to make other peoples lives miserable as you admitted to on ACSOL’s site.
I have news for you. I live a very comfortable life that you can’t make miserable no matter how hard you try. I’m also a former law enforcement officer without any convictions so I have a right to possess a firearm and do exercise that right.
I have never been on the registry because I have never molested a child or raped someone’s son or daughter or anything else that lands people on the registry. I just happen to believe that these laws are counterproductive and need to change. Fighting the registry is only one of the causes that I am involved in.
I started working on an ambulance in Detroit in 1975 probably before you were born. I went on to become a police officer and a police investigator. I am one of the people who lock people like you up.
I have abided by society’s rules for more than 60 years and have been well rewarded for not breaking the law. I own a nice house in the city, a house on a lake up north, several rental properties, several boats, 2 trucks, 2 cars and 3 motorcycles, all 100% paid for. I will be riding around in my convertible and my big bike this weekend. I have a balcony behind my second floor window overlooking the lake. While you are trolling away on the internet I will be sitting on my balcony drinking a beer and enjoying the peace and tranquility that I have worked so hard for all of my life.
When the dust settles you will be removed from the registry. You may not believe it now but you and all others who are pre-July 1, 2011 sex offenders in Michigan will either be removed or receive a date certain for removal.
I say this because I believe in the Constitution of the United States. These legislatures can pass all the laws they like. You can google all of the laws overturned by the courts and will learn that there are many. Judge Cleland will issue a final order in this case. We will not know what will occur until after Cleland signs his order and MSP interprets his order and the 6th Circuit’s decisions.
I read in the comments of ACSOL that a lot of registrants aren’t happy with the ACLU’s work. This is ungrateful. Miriam Aukerman did an extraordinary job on several federal and state court cases for sex offenders in Michigan. Her hard work and dedication has paid off. Miriam Aukerman placed Michigan at the very forefront of the efforts that will eventually bring down these registration schemes. Every registrant and every family member and friend of any registrant should be grateful for the extraordinary job that Miriam Aukerman and Professor Ringold did in these cases.
You may not see immediate results but their efforts is what’s going to take you and thousands of others off of the registry and eventually bring down every registry in this country. Also, if they continue to compel you to register after these various court decisions you can seek monetary damages that you couldn’t seek if not for these decisions. This is no false hope. I have seen what goes on in the system for several decades and know how it works.
Detroit that is one of the nastiest most condescending posts I have ever seen on this forum.
The fact is that there are dozens on this forum who have made a contribution— greater than yours, I suspect— without bragging about how great they are or claiming any credit whatsoever. Some of them have the same criminal history that you do. And NONE of them have ever disparaged someone on here for being on the registry, or accused a total stranger of child rape, as you just have.
You pretty much said what I wanted to say, but I didn’t want to lower myself to his level.
I guess I’ll go sit in a corner and pout now since I cannot legally own a firearm, lol.
Jacob:
Originally, tier 3 in Michigan was penetration of a person under 13 and forceful penetration regardless of age. They have since added some non-penetration of a person under 13 offenses and kidnapping someone under a certain age. He claims to be a romeo and juliet offender but Michigan took all romeo and juliet offenders off of the registry in 2011.
When I post I try to place at least some reasoning in my posts to explain my view. I support others who post an opinion that contravenes my view. Read his posts. Rather than laying out any reasoning he will make things up to try to tear me down like I beat people, plant drugs on people or falsify police reports. He doesn’t do this on occasion but repeatedly when he can’t come up with a viable argument to support his view. I don’t care if people believe him or I. That is irrelevant. He is of the view that he is never wrong and must always have the last word. I know that I am not always right and usually allow him to have the last word. I really don’t care if people believe him or I.
I don’t know anything about his case but I do know who he is. He recently started a new job at a company that makes car parts for Audi, BMW and Porsche.
I own several properties in Michigan and am a member of the landlord association. When you are a member of these various landlord associations you bump into other landlords. I have met his landlord. He is an arab guy about my age that lives in Keego Harbor. The last 4 numbers of his phone number is 7008. I can pick up the phone and call him at any time.
I do know that he has a reputation as a quiet renter that gets along with his neighbors and may be able to rent to him. My properties are all in better areas that he lives in so I can’t offer him rent as low as he is currently paying. However, I can reduce his rent if he is able to assist me with my properties. I may even lower his rent if he assists in some of the causes that I am involved in.
He would have to go through the application process. I would be willing to waive the fees for him and pay them myself.
I don’t know about his case but feel comfortable in saying that he doesn’t fall under Michigan’s romeo and juliet law. If he falls under Michigan’s romeo and juliet law I will personally give him $1,000 if he and I go to the courthouse together to review his case file and it verifies that he in fact does fall under the romeo and juliet provisions of Michigan law. Derek knows me and knows that this is no bull.
My goal is not to tear him down but to yank on his chain so he wakes up. He and I are both on the same side of this issue and it’s not productive if we are both attacking each other. I am willing to bury the hatchet at this point. He is free to continue to vilify me if he wishes. The offer of $1,000 if he falls under Michigan’s romeo and juliet law stands.
Detroit
Even the Romeo and Juliet rule is discriminatory. What happens if they are a Romeo and Romeo or a Juliet and Juliet situation ?
*-)
I’m sorry, but you are wrong on so many points. I NEVER claimed to fall under the Romeo and Juliet case, and don’t need your $1000.
I work for what I have and I do quite well. I may not be as well off as others, but I pay my bills on time and have plenty of extra. I’m not hurting financially. She was the daughter of a guy in a bike club where I was a “hang out”. She told me she was 19, and her father said it too. She was actually 15, as I later found out from her mother, and I was 26 at the time, so certainly NOT a Romeo and Juliet case. There was NEVER any force involved. It was consensual. The specific MCL was 750.520D1A.
I didn’t just start a new job that makes parts for Audi, BMW, and Porsche. I happen to work for a company that is in electronics. It is automotive related, but our own product that we sell as an aftermarket kit. We’ve never designed anything for BMW, Porsche, or Audi.
My landlord is not a man. She’s a woman.
Your properties may be in nicer areas, but the area I am in is quite nice, very laid back and quiet and the police don’t come do compliance checks on a weekly or monthly basis as they have in other places I’ve lived. They’ve actually never been to my house here. Everyone knows everyone else here and we look out for each other. There is no crime in our area and I have only seen a sheriff patrol car drive down our road 2 times in the past. I wouldn’t move even if offered a month or two of free rent somewhere else. The house I live in is very nice and very modern, and probably the second most valuable house on my street.
If you started working for an ambulance service in 1975, then you are MUCH, much older than my landlady.
I would be more than happy to show you my PSI report from my case, but I really don’t feel that I need to prove anything to you or anyone else. I know now what I did years ago was wrong, whether I was aware of her age at first or not. The law is the law. I have nothing against cops. I have a good friend who works for the Lapeer County Sheriff. And I really don’t have issues with other people. I just don’t like it when people try to portray themselves as better than someone else. Everyone has skeletons in their closet.
I have nothing against you and believe it or not, I am actually on your side. I’ve NEVR claimed to be here to troll people or to sabotage anything.
Its hard to read people’s emotions when its in print. When I said I’m coming here to troll you, I admit that it wasn’t the best choice of words. But when I heard you were talking down on Cleland and saying Hood would have been a better judge, it really got under my skin. We couldn’t have asked for a better judge.
I’m ore than willing to let things go. All I ask in return from this moment forth is for you to not portray yourself as being better than me, not put words into my mouth that I have never said, because I don’t do that to others.
In return, I will apologize to you for inferring that you as a former LEO, may have planted drugs on people or beat suspects. Deal?
Now lets focus on this registry and work to make things right with it.
Disgusted
For both of you
I know you guys are both frustrated and I am no judge since I have gotten mad on here, even at FAC (Man times).
But there are many people who come on here who are not part of us and hate us. They love seeing us fighting among ourselves. I was once part of a group that fought so much, the entire group disbanned.
I have said this before and will say it again, lets all take a breath and think things through. Together we stand, divided we fall. I remember when the 9/11 attacks happened. The ENTIRE nation came together. Blacks and white, Jews and Christians, Old and young, Gay and straight.
Even if we kill each other after we win, lets get along at least until we get a victory. I am not grandstanding and as I said above, I sometimes get flustered too. But I for one am not getting any younger and I don’t want to be 90 years old and be told “Hey , congrats you are off the registry now that you have a month to live”.
@Cherokeejack, I’m all for that. Its certainly not constructive to be bickering and I agree with you. I don’t know who Detroit is, but I can guarantee he definitely doesn’t know who I am, who my landlady is, or where I work or live. He’s definitely not about the same age as her, because he’s made it clear that he’s older than me, and my landlady is 11 years younger than me.
As I stated in my response to him, I’m more than willing to let things go, and I even apologized to him, but he has to stop telling people I’ve said things that I’ve never said. All of my posts are still up, so everyone is obviously more than welcome to go read them all. I won’t tolerate it. I also will not tolerate someone trying to portray me as some monster. I don’t need to explain myself to anyone, but I NEVER forced myself on anyone. I never kidnapped anyone. And she wasn’t under 13. She was 15. It doesn’t make it any better in the eyes of the law, but she didn’t look or act like she was a day under 20. I could go on and explain the reason I was charged because I turned down her mother’s advances, but this is not the place for it. I could go on and explain how her father never wanted charges brought against me. I could explain how her mother tried to get the charge dismissed, but it was too late because the state already proceeded. I could explain how, when I was called into the police station to give “my side of the story” that I didn’t understand a thing about the law, or that I was signing a confession. A confession that I never read at the time because I believed the detective really was trying to “help me”. A confession that stated there were 2 instances of full intercourse, but in truth there were only 2 instances of oral sex between her and I. Does it make things any less against the law? No. But had I had the understanding back then that I have today, I would have NEVER met with the detective to give my side of the story, and I would have NEVER signed a thing, at least not without reading it for myself. Yeah, it was stupid of me, but I didn’t think about things. I just wanted to get out of that office, and the detective kept insisting that “these things happen” and I had nothing to worry about. Yeah ok. I should have taken it to a jury trial because neither her nor her parents wanted me to go to jail. I would have had at least a 50/50 chance of beating it, and probably better because back then it wasn’t as big a deal as it is today. I’m not saying I’m not guilty of sexual contact with an underage girl. I’m saying I don’t deserve to be labeled for life for something I did without thinking. Enough punishment is enough.
I’m irritated that the Does II this case dragged out in court and not seeing the relief we are entitled to. Its frustrating, and tempers do flare up. I hope to God that Cleland mentions something about the ex post facto issue of changing registration from 25 years to life, but as I’ve gotten older and wiser, I’ve learned never to get my hopes up and I only believe things when I see them. If I were granted just one wish, it wouldn’t be money or material things. My one wish would be to not die while still listed on the registry.
I hear you. I have always tried to stay positive but, we have no goal. At least in prison, probation, house arrest etc, you are given a sentence and you look forward to that end. With life time registration, what incentive do we have to reach a goal?
None because the only goal they give us is to be afraid every waking moment knowing it may be our last day of freedom. This due to a freaking non criminal offense such as being one day late to register. * Guy kills someone gets 15 years. Another guy shows up late to register gets life?
You’re quite wrong about my case. She was 15 and it was 100% consensual. Her father even told me she was 19, and she said that too.
I really don’t care about your financial situation or what you own. I have all my own stuff too that is 100% paid for and I happen to have a very good paying job, something I am very grateful for., and I also live a very comfortable life. Whether or not you have more “man toys” than me or someone else does not make you a better person. A person is defined by who he is, what he does, etc., not by how much money he has in the bank. 1975? Hmmm…I was in about 4th grade.
Judge Cleland was a very good judge for this case. His rulings time and time again in our favor attest for that. I doubt Judge Hood would have done a better job.
But my issue with you is that you repeatedly told people on ASCOL that pre 2011 registrants will either be coming off the registry, or reverted back to the 25 years. The Michigan Legislature screwed us all over concerning the ex post facto application of the 2011 amendments, and even thou Cleland made a ruling saying it was unconstitutional, the new amended version of sora does not repeal the 25 to lifetime registration period. So my question to you is, how can you say we’ll either be removed or reverted back to 25 years?
I’ve accepted responsibility for my actions a long long time ago. I also never in my life molested or forced myself upon anyone, so before you go saying things you know absolutely nothing about, why don’t you find out what the facts are? I’m certainly not wallowing in self pity. But I do believe in the Constitution and I believe it should be applied equally to everyone. Applying laws retroactively is just wrong, especially to those who have done there time.
It figures you’re a former cop. They always think they’re better than anyone else. All I said in my post was you gave people false hope and spread misinformation about Judge Cleland’s ruling, yet you want to try to disparage me as a person, and insinuate that I’m a child molester or worse.
I appreciate the fact that you are against the registry. A lot of people are. But telling people they will be coming off when in fact they won’t, IS intentional misinformation. That is the only issue I ever had with you. So go ahead and attack me personally if you want. I have learned to grow very thick skin, and if I don’t let the registry affect the life I want to live, neither will your words.
Good luck.
Disgusted
I am a former cop as well. And I do not think I am any better than anyone else. As a matter of fact, that is why I quit. Not all cops are bad, but the ones that are when confronted about it, will do whatever it takes to make your life misrable, including honest cops. I got tired of homeless people being beaten almost to death with PR-24’s, a type of night stick that was later banned due to the Rodeny King incident.
Do the right thing and report another officer and you get to mop the break room. I was even hand washing patrol cars, shining shoes etc. Got called a snitch and more.
Disgusted in Michigan, your main point is the same one I have been hammering on. I have seen nothing in the actual legal results so far that indicates that huge numbers of people are going to be removed from the registry. Neither the state, nor the ACLU, nor the judge has given any such indication. In fact, the recent order by Cleland specifically states that the final order WILL contain separate section outlining what parts of the old law can still be enforced. The judge specifically states that PARTS of the old law were held to be unconstitutional, not the entire law. The test for unconstitutional retroactivity hinges on whether the law is punishment in the legal sense. If Cleland DOES allow parts of the old law to be enforced, it’s because he views them as regulatory, not punitive, although I believe that the lower District Court felt that a court lacks the authority to rewrite a law like that to make it constitutional. It’s going to be difficult for the attorneys to make that further argument to the Court now that the judge has apparently ended the case and has indicated that parts of the old law may still be enforced, but I encourage those lawyers to hold the judge’s feet to the fire on that point. In the end, I don’t see the plaintiffs and defendant coming to agreement about what the final order should include that will be satisfactory to people on the registry. Courts have never ruled that such a registry can’t be PUBLIC. With a registry being public, registrants will still be demonized more that any other exfelons.
One of the parties in the original suit was placed on the registry because he was convicted of kidnapping involving a child, even though no sexual activity was involved. I personally know one man in a similar situation. I hope that they remove that part of the law, but it likely wouldn’t include huge numbers of offenders. That law never made sense. It would be the same as adding everyone to the sex offender registry who is convicted of providing drugs or alcohol to a nonadult. An inebriated victim is more vulnerable after all, even if no sex occurs. But if the federal SORA allows retroactive registration for past offenses, and the Supreme Court holds that to be Constitutional, state courts and federal courts will have to comply regardless of how each judge believes.
As you say, it is far too early to get excited about what we all HOPE will be in that final judgment. If Judge Cleland is bold enough to simply throw out the old law completely and remove everyone affected from the registry, the case could easily end up in the US Supreme Court finally. What would happen there is anyone’s guess. Or the Feds could simply rewrite their law and make it nationwide and retroactive, and take the issue out of the hands of the states completely. It’s always been a mess, and the mess continues.
Gerald
Although there are too many problems with the registry even existing to list, here is one thing that really concerns me. People who look at these listings, are not going to take the time to distinquish between crimes. A masseuse getting a little too friendly with someone during a massage, and someone who raped and killed a child are two very different threat levels.
And we have seen stories here on FAC of someone getting killed who wasn’t on the registry but someone thought they were, then another guy killed because someone thought he was looking at kids while washing his car. Even if he was, is that killing not as bad or worse than looking at some kids? Funny how some justify a murder as a long as it is someone they dislike.
You’re absolutely correct on everything, and no one could have said it any better.
I’m of the feeling that retroactive application of a law, whether it be deemed regulatory or punishment, is simply wrong. Its no different that changing the amount of a fine for a traffic offense, and making everyone pay ne new, higher fine for that specific traffic offense. This has to change. People who were convicted before the registry was created need to be set free of it. People who had their 25 years changed to life need to have it put back to 25 years. These tier designations without individual assessment is nothing but nonsense. They classify tier 3 as the “worst of the worse”. I’m classified as a tier 3, but if you knew the specific details about my case, you would say that I should not be classified as such. Believe me, its bad enough to be on the registry, but to be classified as the “worst of the worst”, when I’ve ALWAYS been the most laid back, non violent, never wanting to physically harm anyone kind of guy, is a nightmare. it makes me feel like I’m no better than Charlie Manson. i would never hurt anyone unless it was self defense, and I certainly would NEVER forcibly rape anyone.
You’re right though about the courts. They do not have authority to rewrite a law. That’s what the separation of powers act is all about. The courts are the judicial branch of the government and its their sole duty to interpret the law. Writing the law and changing the law falls solely on the legislative branch.
I think the courts need to take into consideration what happened during the past 16 months in Michigan. We were all excused from verifying our information with sora. We basically lived like free men and women for almost a year and a half and I have not heard of ONE instance where someone on the registry went out and committed some heinous sex crime. That in itself should be enough to show that the registry does NOTHING, and that the public has nothing to fear from us.
Now wait a minute you guys seems like everyone wants to go to fast to get some fair justice with this registry. Hey when I got involved and I’m sure many also with this offendse ordeal I didn’t know anything about SORA or what that agency or organizarion was all about but I’m sure everyone know’s what entrapt is all about.
Sure I feel bad for many of you all getting involved with this deal whether with a plea or even a jury of your peers. Did one ever take a look at what retroactive means or who would like to reactivate this sex offender B.S all over again. So who’s stumbling in all this Michigan ordeal or are Judges misleading in a lot of this SORA truth or dare. I’m sure someone’s getting a commission.
Everyone of you all on here have spunk whether retroactive or active or how many are letting the sun go down on you. Sure everything can be a waiting game but weight is what broke a lot of issues. Oh thats right we can’t protest and who’s gonna believe a sex offender. I’m sure they would believe a bank robber better than one of us or is everyone is looking for some justice on here, maybe a redress of grievance would be justified. Sure if I had to do my ordeal over again I would of went to court even pulled a fillibuster on them.
You guys why do you think I use the bible or talk someone about thsi in many of these ordeals. Its because thats the one thing government is in fear of. It was even told to me once when they wanted me to retake sex offender classes.. Oh we’ve decided that we no longer want you in sex offender classes but they wanted me in their before. Go figure.
Sure I look for a pardon as well as many, but an I’m sorry, frogive us or whatever from the state its not gonna happen. The state or federal is too proud yes too much pride. Theirs too much money in this tricky and much of this is intimidation. Sure I hope something good comes out of ithis retroactive look as it sounds positive in this odd type of review of this Justice and this SORA issue.
Remember one can always write “Letter to the editor” and show America how wrong it is with these sex registry sting issues even the incarraction of many. Putting someone on probation for life sounds like a phantom of the Opera eye candy ruse. Excuse my language.
Saddles
I agree and have said it before. How can they apply the law to those of us whose crimes predate any registry. Technically I could have avoided it in 1997 when I got released. But there was that issue of having to do years more on probation after I only did 40% of my time locked up due to gain time.
That is one instance I am glad they did not make something retro active. I did only 40% of lock up time. But while I was in others were having to do 85% of their sentences. I got sentenced under the 40% law (or what the percent was, I only did 40%)
But, how can they on one hand say they won’t make you do more punishment if you were already sentenced. Then turn around and say they can retroactively makes us go on registry 5 years into a sentence in 1997. I had to register within 24 of being released.
March 21! What about those let go by the state before there was a Jessica Lungsford, take about punitive!!
Looking forward to “Detroit”‘s take on this.
JZ:
This isn’t the final order that we’ve been waiting for. That’s not going to come until after July 12th. It is nice to know that the final order will come in 2021 and not 2022 (or 2023). The new law and the Betts case has muddied the waters so we have to wait to see what the final order will look like. Cleland is a real proprosecutor judge (a former unethical prosecutor in St. Clair County). I’m surprised how much he has given registrants even though it would have been better if Hood was the judge. If the ACLU had drawn Hood as a judge Michigan’s registry would be long gone and the Supreme Court would be forced to address the registry. Drawing Cleland as a judge means only a 1/2 victory and the process will be drawn out for many more years.
If you look back at Cleland’s record as a prosecutor you would be surprised that registrants got anything from him. That’s why I wasn’t surprised when the 6th Circuit went well beyond Cleland’s original order.
However, Cleland is a good barometer for the far right and how the right wing of the Supreme Court will decide. I think the Supreme Court will land somewhere between Cleland and the 6th Circuit on the registry. It’s just a matter of drawing the right judge to throw out the whole registry and a circuit court panel upholding enough of the decision to force the Supreme Court to take the case.
Michigan registrants simply drew the wrong judge in this case but more battles are brewing so it’s only a matter of time before the Michigan registry comes down.
The good news for registrants is they now know how a rightwing judge will rule. Cleland is actually right of the 11th Circuit panel which is good news for Florida registrants. Whatever they get from Cleland, registrants will get more from the 11th Circuit. Now it’s only a matter of time.
Detroit, your insight is right on here. In the final judgment, I doubt that much will change Michigan. At least that ridiculous school zone prohibition is gone. Where I hold out hope is the possibility of changes coming to the federal law. A federal law is more likely to be given consideration by the Supreme Court. Even though that Court is dominated by the right, the conservatives are sometimes more likely to adhere strictly to the Constitution in regards to issues such as retroactivity. My biggest hope would be that they look at the TRUE stats. Anything that publicly brands a person PUBLICLY, as sex offender registries do, is obviously a punishment. Plus, apparently, the proposed changes in federal SORA would force ALL states to comply with that federal law. That would render all of these state cases moot. As you said, a different judge might have been expected to simply throw out Michigan’s old SORA law completely in light of how many unconstitutional provisions it included.
Gerald
Do not dismiss the right. Almost all of the Republicans have been siding with the Dems on some major issues lately. I forget the last decision on the news lately but whatever it was, all but one voted yes.
Gerald:
I posted a longer response on this litigation than expected on ACSOL’s site.
The one factor that everyone is overlooking is monetary compensation. I am not certain at this point if monetary compensation is viable but believe it most likely will be after this case ends. This is one of the reasons I believe they are pushing for a final judgement before they deal with the new law.
Go to the Oliver Law Groups website. I have been following it since they became the attorneys in Does. They started out as a generic law firm. After joining the Does litigation they became the guardian of registrant rights and now they have reinvented themselves again as specialist in “mass torts”, “class actions” and “human rights”. It appears that they are expecting a big payday. This could be because of other litigation that they are involved in. I believe “human rights” could allude to Does. I believe that there is a better than 50% chance that the Does litigation has forced them to repeatedly refocus and rebrand. You have to remember that the ACLU does not seek monetary compensation. Why bring the Oliver Law Group on board after you have won on the merits?
They cannot ask for monetary compensation in the current litigation and can’t request monetary compensation until after Does is final and Michigan forces people to register that the courts ordered removed. If they ask the court to address the new law in this litigation, they cannot request monetary compensation in this litigation because Michigan did nothing before Does is final.
In order to seek monetary compensation Does must first become final. THEN AND ONLY THEN, after Does becomes final, if Michigan compels the persons removed by these various court orders to register, then they will have an argument for monetary compensation. If Michigan does not compel them to register, they cannot seek monetary compensation. If they voluntarily register, they cannot seek monetary compensation.
Where Michigan will be once Does becomes final will bring Michigan to an important crossroads. They can enforce the new law against the registrants removed by the court decisions and face the possibility of a monetary judgement or they can abide by the court’s decisions and remove thousands from the registry.
And this comes to a third factor and why I don’t like to communicate in posts that turn so lengthy that no one reads them but I will briefly get into that factor.
There’s a lot going on that most registrants are unaware of. Most prosecutors know that these laws are unconstitutional and many FTR’s are dropped when registrants challenge them in court. Registrants read about the ones getting long prison sentences for FTR’s but overlook the majority that get dropped by the prosecutors. So many FTR cases have been dropped in Michigan that you rarely read about FTR’s in Michigan anymore. This may be in part due to our new attorney general Dana Nessel. You have to remember that Dana Nessel stopped all simple marijuana possessions when she became attorney general. Bill Schuette was the hard ass attorney general to the extreme and the reason that Michigan refused to comply with Does I and forced the ACLU to file Does II. Dana Nessel has shifted Michigan away from this foolish hard-assed BS and has made clear that she will fully comply with the law even if she disagrees with it. This doesn’t mean she won’t delay complying with the final order. You have to remember she is up for re-election in 2022. She can blow her 2022 re-election by taking thousands of people off the registry in 2021. I hope she buys time to get re-elected in 2022 and we have out great sex offender registration reckoning in 2023 which might screw Whitmer in the 2024 election.
Now I’ll get into the third factor and that’s all off the registrants who comply with the registry and plead guilty to all of these FTR’s and the prosecutors who dismiss these cases. This is also what creates a lot of negative feedback towards me on these forums. If every registrant challenged every FTR and if every prosecutor fully prosecuted FTR’s to the fullest we would have had a U.S. Supreme Court decision long ago that would have either ended the registries or at least brought them within constitutional limitations. I can understand that registrants don’t want to take the risk of going to prison for refusing to register but by complying with these laws they are only kicking the can down the road and delaying the day the day the U.S. Supreme Court takes on this issue.
A lot of prosecutors recognize the registry for what it is (I’m not discussing the prosecutors who believe the registry is constitutional). They file FTR’s as a matter of routine, the registrant raises his constitutional objections, the prosecutor concedes and the case is dismissed. This also kicks the can down the road. If both the registrant and the prosecutor stand their ground then you get an appellate decision.
I posted a long way since getting into where Michigan will be after the final order is signed but had to go off on a tangent so everyone understands my reasoning.
The third and most important factor is that more than 99% of registrants will comply if Michigan forces them to register in contravention of the court orders. By complying, Michigan will argue that they “voluntarily” registered and should be barred from monetary compensation. This will force their attorneys to argue that failure to comply is a criminal offense so their registration wasn’t voluntary. Long story short, those who refuse to comply will automatically be eligible for monetary compensation if the court rules that they are eligible for monetary compensation. Those who comply risk losing monetary compensation if they comply.
Keep in mind that it is very premature to discuss monetary compensation and I only bring this up because I see the litigation going in this direction. If the ACLU didn’t bring the Oliver Law Group on board I wouldn’t even be going into detail about monetary compensation. And it’s not just seeing the Oliver Law Group being brought into the picture but it’s seeing the Oliver Law Group repeatedly rebrand itself in this direction after being brought on board that leaves me to believe that monetary compensation will be the driving issue if Michigan fails to abide by the court’s various orders in the near future.
You have to remember that thousands of people are off of the registry today thanks to these various court decisions. The 6th Circuit decisions are final. Every registrant affected by the 6th Circuit decision is legally off of the registry. When the Does litigation becomes final everyone affected by that decision will be legally off of the registry. The ACLU telling everyone to continue to register is prudent advice because the ACLU cannot be held responsible if Michigan continues to defy these court orders the same way Bill Schuette did.
And this is why so many people are confused and impatient. They are like the kids in the car that keep asking, “are we there yet?”. They must realize that this is a years long process that Bill Schuette dragged into a more than decade process.
When Does becomes final this will bring the registry to an end for thousands of people if Michigan fully complies with these various court decisions. Michigan still can compel them to register in direct contravention of these court decisions at their own peril because I believe that monetary compensation will be litigated in the new litigation. My recommendation to them if they choose to comply is to register with a smile because they may be getting paid to register. You have to remember that in order to receive money for damages you must prove damages and your word post hoc doesn’t carry a lot of weight. Registrants interested in monetary compensation must keep a journal, get affidavits from witnesses to any jobs lost, harassment, etc. to prove damages. If you are harassed it will be important to file police reports even if a crime isn’t committed. If the police refuse to file a police report, send them a certified letter and keep a copy of the letter and the post office’s green card. Do not send any of your documentation to any attorney unless an attorney specifically requests your documentation. And if they do, only send copies. Never send originals. Attorneys usually cannot be held responsible for losing your documentation. If the attorney asks for the originals, keep copies and deliver the originals in person. Hand them directly to the attorney and not office staff.
If I could predict the future I would put all of my money in stocks, but I can’t predict the future so don’t know where this will go after Cleland signs his final order. I can see the direction that this is going in and am convinced that monetary compensation will be the driving issue in the coming years.
Detroit, I don’t think we have to worry about the state trying to claim that any particular registrant voluntarily complied. Punishment is written right into the law. The letter I and others received from the State Police amounts to an order to comply from state authorities. And the threat of imprisonment to anyone who fails to comply is clearly the kind of coercion that renders any claims of voluntary action impossible to prove in court. I would surely be happy to see monetary compensation for people harmed by the old law, but I am dubious that it will happen. It took a new law to finally obtain compensation for people who were wrongly convicted, Government is granted a great deal of immunity from monetary lawsuits. For example, I would not be able to prove in court that I was forced to leave my hometown a few years ago because the school zone exclusion prevented me from applying for jobs in those zones. I couldn’t prove with certainty that the numerous rejections I got from employers were because I was on the registry. And even if I could, a judge could simply rule that my own past criminal behavior was the real cause for my inability to obtain employment. But I will hope that you are right. It would be great if this class action lawsuit would produce a monetary class action settlement. I am sure that the state of Michigan will appeal any monetary lawsuits for years, running up the bill for the lawyers and leaving little left for those harmed by the unconstitutional law.
A very thought-provoking comment, Detroit. I have one question. You repeatedly spoke of the state forcing a person to register. They physically can not do that. They can only threaten arrest, or arrest after the fact. The former is coercion that needs to be well documented. In the latter case, the injury is an obvious false arrest and loss of liberty.
So in order to press the point, people must be willing to risk arrest. Even if it ultimately turns out to be false, that represents a huge life disruption. That is a tough decision for lots of people and getting mass resistance will be understandably difficult.
Fortunately it might only take a few if the state is actually defying a binding court decision. It will be uncomfortable, and perhaps expensive for those few. Certain persons may be in a position to weather a short jail stint for this cause. Some legal preparation up front would certainly reduce any pain and grease the legal skids. After a documented threat, a cease and desist petition might even be enough to deter the state. They would be on notice that an arrest would be in defiance of the court; and courts don’t look kindly on that. This could be a Dirty Harry go-ahead-state-make-my-day preemptive strike.
There may be interesting times (remember the Chinese “curse”) in Michigan. Good luck to you all.
Veritas.
So this order’s a win for registrants but not a final order as the link suggests. Right?
It is going to be interesting to see how long these courts will tolerate Michigan giving them the middle finger and basically ignoring their orders. Unfortunately, I don’t see a court punishing the state of Michigan or even getting aggressive in enforcing their own orders.
You are right, JoeM. Would have been nice if the federal court had just thrown the Michigan registry out once it determined that so much of the law was unconstitutional. Hitting the ball back and forth across the net like this ignores the fact that people’s lives are affected by all of this. People have been murdered simply because their names were on a public registry.
To my mind, Tennessee who is the greatest possibility because they’re not treating out of stators as differently as some of these other states do. They’re just tagging on a minimum time that you are on their registry. Problem is that they also impose the residency restrictions in the Internet restrictions and stuff like that which a place like Georgia doesn’t do for someone convicted before say 2009 because their courts told them that they couldn’t. But in Georgia you have to petition the court to get off and unlike some other states I have heard that they treat out of staters okay. The worst I was told his one lawyer said he would not even submit a request to the court unless you had been living in Georgia for at least a year. I had other lawyers tell me that if you picked the right county, the fact that I had old connections to Georgia and was going to bring a little bit of money into the state with me would probably work. But Either way, you have to do it in a good county, preferably an urban one. There’s one lawyer in Georgia he’s more expensive than the other people but he practices in the county where I would have a place to stay for at least six months for minimal money. So if I can ever make that happen, I’m just gonna go up there and live there until I get there deal done and then buy a house wherever in Georgia. Even if that fails I might still go and just buy some place out in the country because they don’t have the Internet restrictions and what have you in Georgia so you can have some small degree of online anonymity and maybe you can run a little business using a fictitious name and not have the critical social networks like Instagram kicking you off every three days. Technically, I guess that I am still required to be on the “federal registry” until 2025, but if you’re in a state where you don’t have to register how the hell do you get on the federal registry?
JoeM
What interner restrictions? Are you on probation? I look at what ever the Heck I want on the internet as much as I want, when,where, how, and as long as it is not illegal to anyone else, what can they do about it?
Internet restrictions being that you have to report any and all emails screen names etc. to the government so that they can then turn them over immediately to social media companies that ask for them. That’s why you get kicked off of Facebook within three or four days after signing up if you use one of those email addresses that you have given to the states.. you also have to abide by the thousand foot rule even if you were either never required to follow that rule or you were only required to do it while on probation. Of course we see that same thing in Florida with these cities and counties that can effectively impose a lifetime residency restriction on anyone even people that the state says that they can’t apply it to retroactively because it was A condition of special probation for them a.k.a. punishment. I am still confused as to why the advocacy groups have never argued that or if they have, they have been unsuccessful.
JoeM
Oh ok yeah I have to do that too. Sorry I misunderstood and thought you were having to report every website you go on. Some on probation have to do that.
I did but when I was on probation, at every visit the P.O would scan my computer for porn even though I did not even own a computer before I was arrested. And I had no internet or porn related charges.
JoeM:
Don’t expect much from Cleland. When he was St. Clair County prosecutor he was famous for punching below the belt and stooping to the lowest level to gain a conviction. Look what he did to Frederick Freeman.
He should never had been made a federal judge. Even though he mellowed out as a judge, probably because he has a lifetime appointment, it’s better that a different judge take on Michigan. It’s best in this case to get a final order in Does and wait for a different judge in a different case.
I want to add some information that may back up my cautions about getting overly excited about this Order by Judge Cleland. The first thing to look at is the title of the Order:
“OPINION AND ORDER GRANTING IN PART PLAINTIFFS’ “MOTION FOR
JUDGMENT” AND PLAINTIFFS’ “AMENDED MOTION FOR JUDGMENT” AND
DENYING DEFENDANTS “MOTION TO CLARIFY INJUNCTION”
On page 1, the judge explains what the Order is in response to:
Pending before the court are Plaintiffs’ two motions requesting the entry of a final judgment in the case. 1 (ECF Nos. 99, 107.) Defendants have also filed a competing motion requesting the entry of an order “clarifying” and extending the interim injunction already in place.
(ECF No. 113.)
On page 6, the judge said, “The new SORA became effective March 24, 2021, and all parties acknowledge that the new SORA removes or modifies all provisions that this court found to be unconstitutional in
its February 14, 2021 opinion in Does II.”
Th judge notes that the new act removes or modifies unconstitional provisions. It didn’t completely replace the old law. The lawsuit was always about “disputed provisions of the old SORA,” (Page 11), not about the entire law.
We can see that this is not, by itself, the Court’s final order from Page 17, “The final order will provide a single document defining what violations of the old SORA can be prosecuted in the future.” That certainly implies that the judge has no intention of trashing the old law’s provisions entirely.
The final page of this decision, Page 23, says the most important thing about the final order: “IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the parties in the next 21 days must meet and confer on the contents of the final
judgment. Plaintiffs must submit a joint, proposed form of judgment encapsulating these rulings by July 12, 2021.”
Nothing has been set in stone YET with an official final order of judgment. The reason that the judge wrote such a lengthy Opinion in response to court motions is because he is telling the parties EXACTLY what he expects them to put in their recommended final judgment. By the way, the judge is not obligated to accept their recommendations. He may write an independent himself. Or the parties may be unable to agree on one, then submit one from the plaintiffs and one from the defendant, and still leave it up to the judge to decide the final judgment.
Some good info here on what the Michigan Legislature actually passed:
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(x2qid0y2djzqc4somft0filx))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2020-HB-5679
Particularly the pdf Summary as Reported From Committee (12/1/2020).
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2019-2020/billanalysis/House/pdf/2019-HLA-5679-0EC6B505.pdf
Page 5 talks about which provisions were actually repealed by the Act, which amount to repeal of the school exclusion zones and the handling of juveniles required to register.
You will note at the start that the Bill is described as, “House Bill 5679 would amend the Sex Offenders Registration Act (SORA).” The new Act didn’t repeal and replace the old SORA, it simply amended it. I encourage everyont to read Page 7, because it outlines where the new bill fails, and the fact that sex offender registries do not accomplish any goals of making society suffer. On the contrary, they merely stigmatize offenders who have served their time and have extraordinarily low rates of recidivism.
The judge’s final Order of judgment in this case is yet to come. I hope the state’s response in July irritates the judge enough so that he completely throws out the old law and frees us from the registry, but I really don’t think he will go that far.
Gerald, you may want to carefully proofread your comments before submitting them. You wrote above “…. sex offender registries do not accomplish any goals of making society suffer.”
True – the SORs make Registrants suffer, not society.
Thank you David. I meant to say “safer.” The price I pay for typing with fat fingers on my phone instead of the computer keyboard.
Cherokee look at this retroactive order or ordeal this way. Yes many can preach and sure what is everyone preaching about in many ways. FAC is right if one understands in this good news judicial ordeal. In other words do we meditate or prostinate about the rights of others or are authorities going a bit above human rights or governments endeavor to justify what is right and yes we all have a conscious. Nothing wrong with fighting for justice, rights, or truth in justice.
Sure no one wants another person to lay a trap or entrapt upon another whether thru say via the internet or even in a one on one contact situation even in these situations, or are we all guilty. Even Gerald mentions something about not getting excited. One should understand we all have to be bold to face the many trials in life. Sure these obstacles are not easy and are devilish even if its trying to justify preventing to save one one in much of this masquarade or who is pre-judging in many issues today.
Sounds like it may be good news for all American’s induced in many ways by these retroactive ordeals if one reads this right, or should we all say who is justified in these actions or doesn’t ex post facto many anything and I don’t even understand ex post facto in this dead man walking language. Guess one can be bitter about all this registry hi-jinks but sometimes one has to take it to the limit to find ones freedom when nobody seems to care. Matter of fact that was a good song
So what does this mean exactly? I live in Michigan and i am pre-2006 and 2011 i am -re- 1995. My conviction was1992 and should of never been placed on the registry in the first place, Anyway i am not concerned about the school zone crap or the other junk. I am concerned about the unconstitutional prevision that made me go from a 25 year registry to life. those of us that are pre-sorna should of been removed long ago. So not that i understand all of the judges order people that are pre-sorna should me removed asap. enough is enough already.
Bobby
I agree, I have been on the registry for half my life now. My Charges are from 1991 when there was no registry. The registry started a month before my release. Judge told me there is “No path to get off the registry, it is out of my hands”.
So odd they retroactively applied it, then added the lifetime again retroactively. BUT, they state since it is NOT punitive (Just choked on my own breath) you have to deal with it and go about your life like nothing has changed.
It feels like I am in one of those videos games where you keep getting killed, come back to life to only be killed over and over again. Maybe we should all star in the re-make of “Groundhog day”.
Never mind.
It seems that all this is is a final judgemt to the case that the legislature ignored.
They made a law that is even harsher, thumbed their noses at the court and said, in effect, “ehh…so sue me!”
So the battle starts all over again.
It’s nice to have the case law, but if the legislators simply refuse to abide by the judiciary, or simply do so in a cursory manner…
Back to square one.
I think you missed that the new law is not retroactive
(presuming the final order includes this:)
The new law is not retroactive in that one cannot be convicted of conduct violating the old law after the new law went onto efffect. But the registry remains solidly in place (and, according to some, worse than ever).
Florida Action Committee – the new law may not state it is retroactive but it does single out pre 2011 from internet identifiers only. Kind of hints at it.
In your opinion, what does leaving out the retroactive portion leave open? I’m assuming a new lawsuit will point this out and potentially look to get pre 2011 removed completely? Can you expand a little for us?
Folks, you have to slow down here. THIS is NOT the court’s final judgment. This is the Judge’s ruling on the plaintiff’s motions to issue a final judgment. He has given them until July 12th to submit what plaintiffs think should be included in the final judgment. And while the judge did say that the new law couldn’t be applied retroactively, he also said that the final judgment will include what parts of the old law could still be applied. IT IS NOT THE FINAL JUDGMENT. IT IS THE JUDGE GRANTING A MOTION TO ISSUE A FINAL JUDGMENT. Only when that final judgment is actually issued and the state’s registrants have been notified will we know exactly what it all means. The new law is almost as obnoxious as the old one, and the judge seems inclined at this stage to let it stand. If the judge does indeed add a provision allowing parts of the old law to be enforced (he did say that in this ruling), it won’t matter that the new law can’t be used retroactively.
Gerald
So basically it is a “Win, Win” for the state and law enforcement. With only a consolation prize of false hope for the registered citizens perhaps? AND, regardless, the lawyers still get paid.
Dang I should have furthered my law education. Regardless if you win or lose you get paid (Except for injury cases). If a plumber messes up your pipes, he has to fix it for free (If you can get him to come back out).
Kind of ironic, some who cannot afford a lawyer probably have a slam dunk case to get off the registry. Then others who are loaded with cash, throw it at lawyers and never get past the hearing without a denial of relief.
CherokeeJack, you are completely wrong. This is not a win for the state and law enforcement. This is a LOSS for the state and law enforcement. The judge ruled in favor of the plaintiffs.
For a better understanding of what was won, see: https://www.aclumich.org/en/news/what-you-need-know-about-does-v-snyder-ii and you will get an understanding of what was comprised in this win.
This ruling solidifies the win in Does I and says that this newly enacted version of SORA cannot be applied retroactively. That’s great news.
Dear FAC, I really believe that you are misunderstanding what this is. It is the judge’s ruling in response to a motion by the plaintiffs to have the judge issue an actual final judgment in this case. He ruled that he WILL issue that final judgment. This is not it. The motion was made because the state asked that the case be dismissed as moot because of the enactment of the new “amendment.” That is what the “new” law actually is, an amendment to the existing law. The original law is still on the books. The only things specifically repealed by the amendment were the student safety zone prohibitions, and certain aspects related to youthful offenders. That is why the judge here made note that the final judgment will include a single page outlining which of the old provisions can still be applied to existing registrants. He wants that in a single page specifically to avoid confusion. Registrants like myself, as well as law enforcement officials, had a difficult time deciphering the new amendment. The judge wants to ensure that everyone knows what is expected of registrants, because it is obvious that there will be different rules depending upon when your crime was committed. The Michigan Legislature almost always amends existing law rather than repealing and replacing it. That’s what they did here. Unless the judge COMPLETELY strikes down the old law, it will remain on the books, and parts of it will still be enforceable. If you investigate the actual new bill, it specifically states that its purpose is to “amend” the sex offender registry law. It did not replace it. Unfortunately, the judge even hinted that if the Michigan legislature has included a provision to make it retroactive, his ruling might be different. Remember that the whole retroactivity issue hinges on whether a law constitutes punishment. The federal SORA has been held to be non punitive. If a state law is correctly modeled after the federal law, we would still be stuck with a law that oppresses people for no effective purpose. We have to wait and see exactly what that final judgment in Roes v Snyder actually entails. That won’t happen until sometime after July 12th.
Gerald, “a single page”, huh?
That, in itself, would be a miracle!
(Knowing their bloodlust, I anticipate lawmakers will be sure the single page has a 2 mm margin on all sides, is single-spaced, and uses a 4 point font so they can squeeze in all of their desired punishments.)
Sorry, I was off a little bit. The Judge is actually planning a single SECTION. No doubt that section will be many pages long.
Cherokeejack, it is looking to me that it is another instance of getting people’s hopes up, only to dash them later. Michigan almost never repeals and replaces a law. They simply amend the old one and make it more confusing. Michigan’s Attorney General has publicly stated that she is in favor of getting rid of the sex offender registry completely. I wish that our legislators had as much sense.
I would love to give that Attorney General a big hug. of course I would be arrested for touching someone without their permission but “Air hugs” then LOL
CherokeeJack:
Dana Nessel is a touchy feely left winger. I’m sure she would love to get a hug from you.
I’m not fond of the radical left by I respect her courage to be the only AG in the whole country to recognize the registry for what it is. Now we have to get back in federal court while she is still the AG of Michigan.
Thanks for your hard work, guys!
Question: Is the carve out still there for people who move to Michigan from out of state?
Thanks
Here’s a news article from a TV station in Saginaw, Michigan.
https://www.wnem.com/news/lawsuit-against-states-sex-offender-registry-act-enters-final-judgment/article_0228b086-d2ca-11eb-82a5-f714b384b22d.html
It’s far too easy to get excited when reading judicial orders. It also notes that the parties have until July 12 to submit what they think the final order should contain. There is also a sentence that says, “The final order will provide a single document defining what violations of the old SORA can be prosecuted in the future.” Page 17. There is no mention anywhere of anyone being removed from the registry. As a Michigan registrant, I am vitally concerned about the final judgment. However, this is not it yet. My crime was in 2003. If they are ever forced to go back to the registry version in effect at that time, my information will no longer be public. I hope that the ACLU will urge the judge to completely wipe out the old registry completely, but I am afraid that this order indicates otherwise.
Correction, the parties do not have until July 12 to submit what they think the final order should contain. Judge Cleland will issue that himself without any input. The State of Michigan has until July 12 to provide contact information for those on both the public and non public registry to the ACLU so it can be determined what sub class each person is in. This is so every registrant will know exactly how the new law affects them.
Disgusted in Michigan, read the order. The judge DID ask the parties to come up with a final order that they can agree on. Judges often ask the parties to work out an agreement between themselves to make further appeals less likely. But the judge is always free to ignore their suggestions and write it as he sees fit. Whether the parties can agree on one is another matter. Most of all, the state of Michigan wants to keep everyone on the registry, even those whose convictions were before the creation of the registry. The ACLU will not want to agree with that.
So if someone moves from Florida to Michigan, Will we be added or will we be exempt ???. I’m ready to move if I can be removed !?!?.
Tired
I will probably be slapped out of the room for saying this but, if I had a choice of staying on the registry or moving to Michigan, I will stay here.
#1 Michigan winters are not for the fair of heart
#2 My family is here
#3 The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence
#4 See #’s 1,2 & 3
It should NOT be retroactively applied in ANY state. It is not about what is fair. It is about holding to the Constitution and not being punished twice for the same crime. The judges can dance around the facts all they want, but they are not being true to their callings, of being fair and just.
Upholding the laws the forefathers laid out. Maybe I shouldn’t go there, they believed it was ok to enslave a person against their will without freedoms afford others in these fine United/divided states of America.
Boy, wouldn’t it be great if the impending new Federal SORNA could also NOT be applied retroactive to its implementation date!
(Yeah, I know, not gonna happen. 😒)
That would effectively mean that anyone Committing their act or even convicted before the AWA was passed would be under no federal obligations whatsoever. Of course, the federal government would continue to do the angel thing so that you were effectively banned from entering other countries and tell you to go pick up a flag pole if you complained about it. On a related note, does anyone know if Michigan has always had lifetime registration for all registrable offenses or is this something relatively new, I’m also wondering about Tennessee who has a requirement that anyone coming in from out of state who was convicted elsewhere hast to wait at least 10 years after termination of sanctions or five years of registration on the Tennessee registry, which ever is greater. That also imposes the residency restriction and Internet stuff on people coming in from out of state even if they were not subject to them in their home state. Also wondering when Kentucky determined that anyone coming in from out of state would be on the registry for life instead of 10 or later 20 years? Same question would apply to Indiana and water the eighth circuits decision overturning Indiana’s law that requires former Indiana registrants coming back into the state to register for life. I assume that includes any registered coming in from out of state.
@ JoeM: I have specially marked IML “unique identifier” passport and I have had no problems travelling to Europe (except that one time that Angel Watch mis-identified me as a “fugitive”! That was fun! 🤗)
But seriously, no border officer has ever even looked at the IML notification of the passport. They look at the passport photo, look at me, and say “Enjoy your visit.”
That very well may be because a court operating under EU law in the UK and maybe one in Germany said that the lifetime and public registries violated the European convention on human rights. Of course the UK and Ireland don’t give a shit and they just exclude you on the vague public threat laws that they used to exclude people like that crazy parliamentarian from the Netherlands. I had a similar experience to you the last time I went to Europe in November of 2012. It was the first time that they had the full-blown Angel Watch, I was met at the gate in Brussels by four Belgian national police officers. By the end of our little session they were wondering how the hell any government could put someone on the registry for life and even worse one that was public on the Internet. The senior guy who had spent time in the US said just next time make sure you don’t put quite so much stuff on the Internet like he still can’t even understand that this had nothing to do with me. It was the feds and also Florida paying a lot of money to have their registry search engine optimization so it’s the first thing that appears when anyone googled your name.
@ JoeM: Yes, many in the UK are as moronically stupid and pathetically “sex offender” hysterical as the most of the U. S. population. 😒
‘New’ Federal SORNA? What’s this?
Federal government proposed publishers proposed changes to SORNA:
https://all4consolaws.org/2020/08/federal-government-publishes-proposed-changes-to-sorna/
Can it survive appellate scrutiny?
Yes, please. I’ll take one of those for Florida.
Ben
Here in Florida, we have a lot of Sheriff’s that think they are above the law, wrote the law and ARE the law. Even if a judge issues a stay here while a case was heard on the registry, the defiant Führer would issue his/there own proclamation. It would read something like this: “We will continue to enforce the registry laws until a Federal judge personal comes and puts me in handcuffs”.
So which sheriff said that? Polk, Seminole, Marion or Volusia?
I can say that “Marion” County said “They Don’t Care” !!!.
The dumb one! 🤣🤣🤣
JoeM
I forget the County but it was Grady Judd
Polk. Grady Judd is our own little low rent version of Joe Arpaio And the role model for some of the other idiot sheriffs in Central Florida.
This is pretty much what Marion County told me when I questioned what that would do if the “High” Court would stop the Registry !!!!! I was BOKDLY told that “They Didn’t Care”, And Would Continue to enforce ALL Registry Rules !!!!!. And Would ARREST anyone that didn’t follow ALL the Requirements of the Registry !!!!. And I BOLDLY told them, GOOD LUCK, Cause I’d SURELY stand and fight them !!! They don’t like me there cause I’m ALWAYS letting them know how ILLEGAL everything they’re FORCING ON US is !!! They just laugh and tell me that I “Shouldn’t of commited a sex Crime” !!! ND they treat you like TRASH in Marion County !!.
The problem there is that Florida law says that whatever tiny chance that you have of getting off the registry by petitioning after 25 years or whatever goes out the freaking window if you’re even arrested for a crime. Not charged, not convicted but I rested.
Yet they filed a no information on my arrest and didnt even make it to arraignment. I dont get how thats right! Somehow i cant even get it expunged! Never arraigned, never pursued just filed no info within a week or so ofnit happening
JoeM
According to FAC ( I keep getting contrary info) even if you have life or 25, if you were under the old rule and it changed, you can petition to get off in 20. This is due to a ruling made by a judge stating that the law makers CANNOT change the time line retroactively. ( And yes that goes out the window with a new arrest)
Having said that, even some have gotten off the registry with a new violation charge. (That story was also posted on FAC site in the past)
If I am told this is not true and they never said that, I will find the saved emails I got about it. ( I save every post that concerns my situation)
You are correct, but it’s ultimately up to the Judge’s discretion.
FAC
Thanks for your response and verification. Sometimes hard to weed through past post. That is why I save the ones relative to my situation.
I have saved posts, saved lawyers names that were mentioned in here and laws that have been challenged and successfully won relief.
Thanks again for all you do
Tired
Seminole county (Not sure about now) when I lived there was a nightmare with registration. That was a long time ago but as soon as I got off probation I got the Hell out of Dodge. Prefer not to say where I live but I rarely get bothered.
However today I was part of a compliance sweep and never had one of those before. It was pretty basic and overwith in 2 minutes.
Compliance sweep?
“Yep, i live here. ”
“Here’s my i.d.”
“Sorry, i can’t answer any other questions right now as my attorney isn’t present. ”
Maybe if everyone stuck to those answers, they’d stop the sweeps. I think people say incriminating things they don’t have to when an officer shows up.
You need not answer any questions about vehicles, jobs, cigarettes, email, or ANYTHING. They can only verify your address without a warrant.
AND, funny thing is, they can’t make you answer the door.
I would expect that these swiss would net big fat zero if no one answered their door. Being on the registry doesn’t mean you have top dpo anything other than what the law states and generally that is abide by your registration requirement. Address verification is their burden, not yours.
Im wondering if they even have the right to come on your property and inspect vehicles without a warrant. I should think not, but they may claim they can as they are walking up to ring your bell. I wish i had a garage.
Jim
I do not say much at all but I WANT to answer the door. Here is why. I get it out of the way because if I don’t , they will go door to door with flyers and ask the neighbors if they have seen me or know where I am. That is my worst nightmare. One time I was not home and got a Yellow flyer taped to my front door that read “SEX OFFENDER” compliance attempt.
Now if we can just get this in Florida