A member pointed something out that we were not aware of, but in times of crisis (such as we are in), becomes critical to businesses.
The US Small Business Administration (SBA) provides small businesses with low interest loans to help recover from disasters, including the present financial disaster that is caused by the Coronavirus outbreak. The loans can save companies and their employees from going under during these difficult times. The SBA is here to save small businesses… unless they are owned by a person required to register as a sex offender! They are ineligible.
To qualify for loans from institutions participating in the small business lending fund, businesses must certify that none of their principals has been convicted of, or pleaded no contest to, a sex offense against a minor. (Annually, until the Redemption Date, a participating institution must certify to Treasury that for each loan originated by the institution or any of its affiliates that was funded in whole or in part using SBLF funds, the institution has obtained from the business to which it made such loan a written certification that no principal of such business has been convicted of a sex offense against a minor (as such terms are defined in section 111 of the Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act, 42 U.S.C. §16911). These certifications must be retained by the institution in accordance with standard record keeping practices established by the appropriate federal banking agency)
Hmmmm, not sure what to do, I applied for and received a SBA load on the first round, I have since applied for the 2nd round, now I am being told that I do not qualify because I’m on the “hit list “.. no record, adj. withheld. how did I get A OK on the first loan, but now status is a problem for the 2nd. sentenced in 2004, 17 years ago. not even a speeding ticket since.
First time commenting on here, but just wanted to share that I got approved and funds in my account through the PPP Program. I been reading the posts on here for years and appreciate all the hard work being done on our behalf!!!! If the PPP is something that fits your business needs, it may not be to late to apply!!
Thanks for sharing the good news, Jeremy.
Good Day,
My conviction was over 8 years ago,,,,,,
I applied online for the initial $10K and received a confirmation; and today received the information to contact my local bank in order to proceed…Still waiting for the process to begin….My Lawyer/Accountant said i was ‘Good to Go’….we shall see….Still waiting for the main SBA Loan Website to be up and running; apparently it crashed the other day!; so I can apply for the REST!
hope this helps others!
Did you get the advance in your bank yet ?
Linda, I got my SBA EIDL advance 3 days ago and the same day the bank called me and gave the SBA approval number for my PPP loan. I guess it matters more if you have business history and good credit than if you ars listed on a S.O.R.
@FAC is it possible to get clarity on the PPP SBA Loan that currently went into effect today. More specfically the question number 6:
Within the last 5 years, for any felony, has the Applicant (if an individual) or any owner of the Applicant 1)
been convicted; 2) pleaded guilty; 3) pleaded nolo contendere; 4) been placed on pretrial diversion; or 5) been
placed on any form of parole or probation (including probation before judgment)?
If a person was convicted in years 2008 through 2011 and was on probation up until say 2 or 3 years ago that would (by my interpretation) mean that you fall under that 5 year window?
Is there any way for clarification and a separate dedicated post for this for those of us that own our own business?
2011 would have been more than 5 years ago. you should be good to go.
Someone in Washington has been listening. Today the application for the P.P.P. loan for small business has been changed. The question now ask for the last 5 years instead of 7 years have you been convicted of a felony. They took out the part about for a crime against a minor and misdemeanor conviction. I don’t know if they have changed the qualifications for the grants or other loans but this is a start.
So, small businesses that are owned by sex offenders that;
*provide employment opportunities
*boost the local economy
*allows the offender to contribute to the general welfare of the public including taxes through income and sales
are being told in essence ‘too bad, we don’t care about those being employed by you nor do we care about the service being provided that generates income for the offender, employees, state and local government as well as for the federal government. Go hungry. Go homeless. None of you matter.’
Really? I could end up on the street because I may be working for a sex offender and the SBA won’t help my place of employment because the owner of the business is a sex offender? How is this fair to me and my family? How does the SBA expect me to pay my bills? Why should I have to look for another job, a job I love and enjoy because someone decided that a business owned by a sex offender isn’t worthy of being saved or helped in a time of need? When did this country become so unAmerican?!!
This wrong and someone needs to stand up a fight against this very inappropriate policy effectively harming not just the offender but too the people who work for them and the good generated by their business for the community both local and federal.
FACTS
The US Criminal Justice System is $268 BILLION (of which $32 BILLION is spent on SORNA and SORNA related Federal JAG grants ‘bestowed’ to State jurisdictions)…juxtapose that to the Wal-Mart Corporations 2019 Revenues of $339 BILLION….that is roughly 10% of Wal-Mart’s annual revenues…
Ladies and Gentlemen…CRIME IS COMMERCE, especially in FLORI-DUH!
Too Bad, we don’t get those ‘Wal-Mart Rollbacks’ with a Smiley Face!
Ha Ha!
What is the source for these facts?
The California Sex Offender Management Board (CASOMB) states at casomb.org that between 10 and 40 billion dollars a year is spent on managing the registry in this country — a registry where the recidivism rate, taken collectively, is in the single digits, and over 90% of FUTURE sex offenses will be by people NOT on the registry.
Once our economy tanks because of this virus situation, I will be notifying some of the major news outlets in this county about this great waste in taxpayer money. If anyone has documentation sources about the cost of monitoring the registry, cost of locking registrants up over technical violations, etc., please post them at this website. Thanks.
SarahF
You are an angel. Everything you do is soo important and appreciated. The only thing that burns me more than what the registry has done to me personally is the raping of the American people by politicians for money for the registry. Billions and there are so many different figures out there , does anyone even know the exact amount? The true amount seems to be kept a secret. It needs to be exposed and published everywhere. As well as the worthlessness of the registry in general.
Sarah, do you have the web address for the CASOMB report that you reference? Once I get the actual commentary I plan to send it to every news media that I know of. I hope that you and Ed are getting adjusted OK. I guess that lunch with you guys is out for a while at least.
Capt. Munsey, I found that statement at casomb.org. When you get to the website, click on the video. There is some very good info in the video along with the statement about the national cost of maintaining the registry. I reference this video in much of my correspondence.
Ed and I will be glad to give you a raincheck on the lunch once this virus thing is over with.
Capt. Munsey, I am not sure if FAC will be able to post the list of contacts that I sent them. Did you get them in an email I sent to you? I will gladly email them to any FAC member. I give FAC my permission to give my email address to anyone who wants to see my list. Again, it is a hodge podge, and I am hoping that other members will post their contact emails at this FAC website so that we can expand our list. I know that there are plenty of FAC members who have additional contacts that I do not have.
In addition to the list that I emailed you, I have obtained the following contact emails for the Gainesville Sun:
[email protected] Editor
[email protected] Local News Editor
[email protected] Opinions
[email protected] Events
I have found that Gainesville is an area of the state where the majority of the people base their decisions on research — not myth.
Capt. Charles there are a 1 million people on the registry in this country. That is a disgrace. I don’t believe in america anymore. The government does this to sex offenders for votes.
Glen, I still love America but you are correct about the registry. It has been taken over by politicians who have no clue as to the truth about registrants…or they know the truth and just don’t care as long as their actions get them votes from an ignorant public. That is why I believe that educating the public is so important. Also, letting the public get to know what a registrant is really like is important. I did that in my neighborhood and get along fine with everyone…even the ones with kids. Educating America is one tough job but oh so necessary. That is why organizations like FAC and NARSOL are so important and worthy of our support. With the info I received from Sarah plus some additional that I have gathered I plan to provide enough info to the media sources that they cannot honestly say they are not aware of the conspiracy going on in this country against registered citizens.
The following link may provide more insight into the 2020 CARES Act rather than previous laws.
https://www.sbaloandefaulthelp.com/applying-for-an-sba-loan-with-a-felony-in-your-background-you-better-understand-sba-form-912/
I was convicted in and served jail time in the military. The only thing that shows up on my background check now is the registry. Can I answer no on that stupid question?
This is copied directly from the SBA Payroll Application:
Within the last 7 years, for any felony or misdemeanor for a crime against a minor, have you: 1) been
convicted; 2) pleaded guilty; 3) pleaded nolo contendere; 4) been placed on pretrial diversion; or 5) been
placed on any form of parole or probation (including probation before judgment)?
what about those of us who had adjudication withheld ?? i have NO record.. but am on the list
Section 4107(d)(2) of the Small Business Jobs Act of 2010
For what its worth, here is the SBA certification statement:
(d) Required Certifications.–
(1) Eligible institution certification.–Each eligible
institution that participates in the Program must certify that such institution is in compliance with the requirements of section 103.121 of title 31, Code of Federal Regulations, a
regulation that, at a minimum, requires financial institutions, as that term is defined in 31 U.S.C. 5312(a)(2) and (c)(1)(A),
to implement reasonable procedures to verify the identity of any person seeking to open an account, to the extent reasonable and practicable, maintain records of the information used to verify the person’s identity, and determine whether the person appears on any lists of known or suspected terrorists or terrorist organizations provided to the financial institution by any government agency.
(2) Loan recipients.–With respect to funds received by an eligible institution under the Program, any business receiving a loan from the eligible institution using such funds after the date of the enactment of this Act shall certify to such eligible institution that the principals of such business have not been convicted of a sex offense against a minor (as such terms are defined in section 111 of the Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act (42 U.S.C. 16911)).
So sex offenders and terrorists are in the same group. But no mass murders or white collar crimes?
Rob, I see that is the 2010 law. But the CARES Act was signed into law just a few days ago. Are we precluded under the 2020 CARES ACT?
CARES ACT is not sba loan or grant! Cares is compleatly different
I filled out the COVID-19 Economic Injury Disaster Loan Application. The print out after it was submitted has the SBA logo and at the bottom it says, “SBA Office of Disaster Assistance.”
So far no response from them. I’m not holding my breath.
At what point does this registry scam get legally recognized for the government-sanctioned license to openly discriminate against persons forced to register? At what point do the unscrupulous people in black judicial cassocks fully admit the truth? Ever? This is so blatant. Everything in this country just about has this caveat…’EXCEPT FOR SEX OFFENDERS’.
Your Honor? Nothing honorable about a scumbag in a black robe who does every kind of legal contortion possible to uphold this government-sanctioned call to discrimination called “the registry”.
Not punishing? Doesn’t impose affirmative restraints? Let these liars in black robes live on the registry as a child predator for a decade and then see how they rule!
Courts in an increasing number of states have held that registry is punishment. Courts who previously held otherwise were either looking at milder registration schemes or being told there was a public safety benefit (or both). In Florida, it’s still being litigated.
It is being VIGOROUSLY litigated.
Yes it is, FAC. Every time I read a court filing that is posted here, I am reminded of that fact. So I stand corrected.
Yea I filled out the application this morning and the very last question was about ever being convicted, pleading nolo contendre, serving probation or parole for a crime. I submitted the application with a pit in my stomach. Another added punishment that was not mentioned or explained when I took a deal 22 years ago.
Hey Rob, will you please let us all know how that goes for you? Thanks in advance.
I will follow up with you for sure.
Rob
I don;t know if it will help you but the SBA has a new paycheck protection program and the application is for a small business, even sole proprietorships & self-employed individuals to borrow money to pay your payroll, mortgage interest & utilities. It is a forgivable loan from the SBA & has only a two page simple application form and question 6 asks: within the last 7 years for any felony or misdemeanor crime against a minor have you been convicted, pleaded guilty or placed on probation. So if you are like me with a thirty rear old conviction it should not matter
I don’t have payroll, but do utilities. I did a forbearance on our house loan and I think interest is postponed for the 90 days.
Thanks, I’ll look at the app.
Rob
Not sticking up for them or making excuses, but in that scenario you cannot blame the registry. There are just some things we will face in life because of our convictions regardless if we get removed from the registry. Your / our records will forever follow us unless you get them sealed. I heard very hard to get a sexual crime record sealed.
Deal or no deal, some things are just because we have a felony record. Getting off the registry would be a huge weight off our shoulder, but is not going to magically make our past go away.
“Former sex offenders,” the term used by Jeanne Baker in her televised debate with Ron Book, is by far the most effective term, no?
It is a statistically (95%) accurate description of those listed on the sex offender registry, but without causing confusion and without appearing to throw shade. The public grasps its meaning almost intuitively.
Nah, don’t like it. It is one of the best terms and certainly has some appeal, but I don’t think it’s good overall.
Let’s think about someone who drove drunk and “accidentally” murdered someone. Where I live, last time I looked, that will get you about 7 years in prison. So the person does 5 years and gets out. Maybe a few years of parole. Maybe. What names should we be calling the person 20 years later? “Former murderer”? “Former drunk driver”? “Scumbag”?
I’d say none of those. The person did something terrible. Paid a terrible price. Probably still does. I wasn’t part of the tragedy in the first place. So I should call him/her pejorative names? Especially names that lying, criminal big government uses in a war?
Pick your favorite crime and think of the same thing. Crimes are committed and punishments are paid. Would we call all People Forced to Register “former sex offenders”? Even people with truly trivial crimes that didn’t actually harm anyone?
Nah, I think it’s bad. The crimes are over. The punishment is over. Registries have nothing to do with punishment. There is absolutely no reason to have people on a Registry in the first place and certainly not for trivial crimes DECADES and DECADES later when we can’t even be bothered to Register people who shoot people with guns (and keep them from living near schools, etc.!!).
Registries are separate. They are not punishment. There is no reason to have them. The only common characteristic about the people who are listed on them is that they are PFRs.
And obviously most of the “extra” punishments/harassment/restrictions that come with being a PFR have nothing to do with any sex crime, preventing sex crimes, or being a “former sex offender”. Nearly all of that extra stuff is forced upon PFRs “just because” and in spite of common sense and known facts.
“Former sex offender” looks too sensible as well. Yet there is nothing sensible about it. It is fine if people are confused about PFR. Let’s get people to think and wonder. Let’s get people to recognize PFR. If we don’t, most people are going to keep constantly conflating “sex offender” = “people in prison” = “people on probation/parole” = “people forced to register”.
Only one person out forth the, possible, connection to tax dollars. I do believe the SBA is tax funded. Provided my thinking is correct, then my tax dollars are supporting things that, as a person forced to register, I have no access to. That to me is a form of robbery and a form of discrimination.
I can’t pick and chose what my tax dollars support or I would deny any agency using tax dollars the benefit of mine.
Why should my tax dollars benefit someone’s business, anyway?
The government of the United States has declared war on all persons forced to register.
Should this be unilateral??
Perhaps we should study the Palestinians and their Intifada?
The Intifada got violent, in some cases deadly, so I would resist the temptation to view it as a model. Not to mention that bringing Israeli-Palestinian issues into the discussion might drive away certain people that we want engaged (I realize I already said this about Nazis, I just think there are other ways).
But I would agree that certain representatives of not only the US government, but of state and county governments, are at war (mainly a legal war) with former sex offenders.
It’s nothing more then joinging a price club a man wearing a black dress once said
Will
I think you are right on the mark with the suggestion of not using or even acknowleding the term ” sex offender”. You are right to use the term , ” people being forced to register”. It hopefully makes people think a little more. Honestly it may be a little more to write, but from now on I believe all forms of litigation and legal requests on the behalf of those who support this fight for changes should never use the term sex offender on our end again. Its like clubbing yourself and taking away your dignity. I believe this is a good first step in changing things. You most certainly can say the the term should be “people who are being forced to register”. I think all and any future letters should most definitely be signed this way. Its one way to get the point across…
I reject the phrase “sex offender” because it sounds like a person’s defining characteristic (like “Christian” or “American”) or occupation (truck driver, lawyer, bartender), neither of which is in my case and at least 97% of those registered.
The common perception of the phrase “sex offender” is one who commits sex offenses, not one who has previously committed a sex offense. I prefer to be considered a registrant, though I can live with “prior sex offender” depending on the conversation.
The last time I was in court, I told the DA and the judge I found the term offensive and was rewarded with a dirty look after I pointed out that the judicial code of conduct required that he not allow offensive conduct.
I agree with you all 101 per cent on this. Most definitely “people being forced to register”
This is an expensive price club membership as many registered persons do own and run small businesses to make ends meat as they can’t find employment otherwise. I’m running 2 at the time one is strictly online amazon, ebay, our website for a product that we manufacture. last year gross sales 22k with 60% profit and other business is a service business with a 70% profit and last year’s gross sales were 16,200 so not killing it but can pay rent, business insurance, vehicle insurance, elect. phone, etc… and it’s still a little rough as i racked upped 30k credit card debt starting a business with high-interest rate. was hoping to get an SBA loan to pay off credit card debt and lower monthly payment but no go for me. on a side note now i know why my hurricane SBA loan was denied doad frank bill 2010
My father and I own a small business together, we will now be out of business, this is hurting my fathers income as well as mine. We were hoping to get a small loan to keep up the expenses of the business, but, its over, close the doors, and I am sorry dad
Transfer your shares to your wife or mom and then have him certify it’s not owned by an SO. Get the loan then buy back your shares. If your married filing joint whats it matter who hold the shares.
Should be brought to the attention of SCOTUS on an emergency injunction.
So how does depriving someone, and most likely their family, from life saving financial aid “save one child?”
Any real constitutional lawyer would sue the fu¢k out of the US government for creating and demonizing a separate and unequal class of citizens.
I see no hope going forward. Our small and year-long “victories” don’t make a dent in the overall oppression we suffer everyday. We really do need a march on Washington for even a hope for anything to change for the better. Rational approaches have not worked.
So I read the definitions in section 111 quoted in the comment and it is not clear at all if this means all sexual offense convictions or only tier 2 & 3 or if it means only contact offenses or only if the person you offended was under 18 contact or not. Also is the SBA telling anyone who has employees who has a sex offense conviction not to pay their employees as requested by our President? Please help clear some of this up because this involves many more people than just the sex offender.
I downloaded the application for the Paycheck Protection Program and it does say if you have been convicted of a felony or misdemeanor for a crime/any crime against a minor within the past 7 years you will not be approved. They did at least not mention us by name and they did include every type of crime not just us. That does show they are thinking about how they have singled us out in the past. You always have to see a glass half full or the sun will never shine on you!!!
Can you imagine an RSO trying to get a travel permit to travel out of state to go to DC for a massive protest? I would love to see it happen but for a probationer in Florida to travel outside of a home county requires close to an act of Congress. An organized mail-in campaign might be an option. Although if a politician gets too overwhelmed they would just put the mail in the incinerator and settle back for an afternoon ‘tottie’.
Eventually someone on the registry is going to snap and do something irrational. Instead of sending a message to the law makers for change for our betterment, I fear it would have the opposite affect and cause every single one of us to pay the price for it.
Search warrants of our homes, weekly in person registrations and more. The President is talking about a war on the virus but there is also a war on us. When the courts ruled there had to be a way for us to get off of the registry, they got away with making it so long and so difficult that, some like myself, will be dead before getting that one chance to be denied removal anyway.
In Florida even after you are dead you will be on the registry. Knowing the way Florida operates they are probably trying to figure out how to fine your estate if you don’t come up out of the grave to re-register.
This is one of the many sad realities of being on the registry. People are still trying to figure out a way to prosecute the corpse of Jeffrey Epstein.
I wrote an email to the SBA general questions section. I wrote that I knew people this affected which is true but didn’t want to include that I was also one of the people that are ban from a loan. I’ll put a copy of it below. My main question was WHY? I mean what’s the reasoning behind it. I’ll post the response if they bother to write me back. Here’s what I wrote:
I have a few general questions. I was reading an article about SBA Loans for Small Businesses and came across the stipulation that people requiring to register as a sex offenders are banned from receiving loans.
My questions are:
Why?
What’s the logic behind it?
What about people that are on these registries but are no longer under any supervision and are crime free for 20, 30, or even 40 years?
Why wouldn’t former bank robbers, murders released from prison or people that committed fraud be included in this ban?
Why the discrimination? Is it pressure from society since everyone knows these are the people to discriminate against and is justified with “to protect society”?
Is it just a rule to make people feel good that there is a discrimination clause against a specific group of individuals that are just trying to put their lives back together years and even decades after the fact?
Is it the whole “NOT IN MY BACKYARD” mentality but applied to a business setting?
I ask these questions because I know people that had been in trouble decades ago and are still struggling for work. They have been denied every opportunity to gain employment for any substantial amount of time so the only alternative is to own their own business but obviously they struggle with this since most loans that they apply for are being denied by default.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
This is from the SBA Website, so it is NOT just Registrants that are disqualified.
‘SBA has a policy that it will not extend loans to individuals or businesses with an owner or associate convicted of crimes of “moral turpitude.” Moral turpitude is a term that is often used but rarely defined in the law. A crime of moral turpitude is generally a violent felony or a crime involving dishonesty. Embezzlement, aggravated assault, attempted murder and perjury would all likely be considered crimes of moral turpitude.’
Dude your right just what you wrote “why wouldn’t…included in this ban“.
This shows it’s punishment. They are punishing us for our past and the registry is the flier soliciting people todo so. If we’re going to be forced to register literally by a man with a gun then we need to be a protected class to prove its about saving the next child. All this does it add to the camels back.
Replace “US” with “Nazi” and “sex offender” with “Jew”. Would anyone deny it sounds like a real piece right from the 1930s?
The Nazi Small Business Administration (SBA) provides small businesses with low interest loans to help recover from disasters, including the present financial disaster that is caused by the virus outbreak. The loans can save companies and their employees from going under during these difficult times. The SBA is here to save small businesses… unless they are owned by a Jew!
This is pure oppression for political gain, giving the illusion that you’re doing something to protect others, and pure sanctimony. It’s cheap and transparent to anyone with a single iota of knowledge about what a “sex offender” is. This is where effort to educate the public will shine.
There are no Nazis in SBA, and they are not going to discriminate against Jews.
The Nazis summarily executed Jews for having been born of the wrong parents and grandparents. I realize that this forum is a safe place for us to vent, but whenever we trot out the phony Nazi-Jew analogy, we lose our audience and undermine our own attempts to educate the public.
And this is not to pick on any one commenter. Many of us are frustrated and worse, but we ought to resist the temptation to bring Nazis and Jews into it.
Jacob,
Agreed. Let’s stop comparing our situations to those of the Jews with Nazi Germany. We committed crimes (albeit some should not be considered crimes like teenagers getting caught screwing the backseat).
I keep offering the argument for the professionals to take into consideration when taking these issues to court, and that is – Did we have a sex offense registry prior to Megan Kanka? Were people with sex offenses restricted from standard life back then as they are now? Then why now, all of a sudden and almost out of nowhere, are we BANISHING people with sexual offenses? If life carried on back in the days before 1996 with thousands of convictions for sex offenses, it can carry on now the same way and without the banishment.
Why won’t anyone ever use this in the legal arguments? Why!??
I understand your sentiment and partially agree, but respectfully disagree that it doesn’t fit. It absolutely does fit. If your only reservation in using the Nazi analogy is that nobody is “born” onto the registry, I ask you to consider the stats that certain races and genders are disproportionately more likely to be charged and convicted of a sex crime. If I was born black, or a male, I am statistically more likely to be placed on the registry for my offense than my white, female counterpart. If the word Nazi makes you uneasy, I apologize, but the shoe absolutely fits and we shouldn’t not make the analogy solely because it might sound cheap. On further investigation you will find it isn’t cheap and is more of a big red flag we need to be highlighting.
Your counter view is appreciated, though. Thanks.
All – lets move away from this analogy – it’s offensive to compare extermination camps to registration or a religious groups to people who people convicted of crimes.
In more modern time the term “nazi” might have adopted a more broad definition (ex: the Seinfeld “soup nazi”) but in the context of the holocaust or nazism that took place during WW II, we’re going to cut this debate short.
I love the look of your main web page right now that has 4 posts right together that say “x y z … except sex offenders”. You could have a separate web page dedicated to nothing but “except sex offenders” articles and just post one after another, in chronological order. For years and forever.
But … we’ve all got to stop saying “sex offender”. Somehow.
Every time a person says that it just further solidifies the legitimacy of it. There are “sex offenders” walking free among us good people! We must stop those people. Even I, when I read “except sex offenders”, my first thought is “Of course, why would that even be considered? Sex offenders should be in prison.”
We’ve got to use something else. I think “People Forced to Register” is exactly accurate and perfect. It may be slightly awkward to use/fit in some contexts. People might not understand it in some contexts, maybe. But that may not be that bad either if it prompts people to wonder what it is and question it.
But we can make the term widely known. There are certainly enough of us. We can certainly flood this issue. How would this whole Registries issue look if most of the general public knew that most people refer to listed people as “People Forced to Register”? And that only helpless, big government dependent rubes want Registries?
This is a PR war and “sex offender” is a weapon of the immoral side.
Personally, I’ll just use the terms PFR and RS/Ts right out of the blue without explanation. I simply act as if any informed person should know what those are.
Will
I think you are right on the mark with the suggestion of not using or even acknowleding the term ” sex offender”. You are right to use the term , ” people being forced to register”. It hopefully makes people think a little more. Honestly it make be a little more to write, but from now on I believe all forms of litigation and legal requests on the behalf of those who support this fight for changes should never use the term we offender on our end again. Its like clubbing yourself and taking away your dignity. I believe this is a good first step in changing things. You most certainly can say the the term should be “people who are being forced to register”. I think all and any future letters should most definitely be signed this way. Its one way to get the point across…
Will, great idea. I will start using that term…”People who are forced to register”
I love how we can get private and state funded assistance for some things, but never any Federal assistance! The Federal government has made it a point to clearly discriminate against us at every turn.
This is total BS!
There are many RSO’s, enough that we can form a small army! Maybe it’s time to mobilize and show what a bunch of pissed off citizens that are at the end of their rope with all the crap can do if we decide to?
The time to make a stand is long over due! Enough with words, like anything that has ever made a difference or a major change in this country, actions speak louder than words!
I for one have had enough, how many other feel like this?
Seams we take one step forward and ten backwards.
Picture it, over 100,000 RSO’s and thief families, friends, and professionals, marching on the Whitehouse, demanding we be heard! Demanding our equal rights, demanding fair, and just decisions!
They would have no choice, they can’t jail that many at once, they have to listen!
Yes i for one agree!!!.
Amen.
Over the years I have often fantasized that I could be invisible because if that was possible, I could end the Registries all by myself within just a couple of years. But instead of that, the moral, anti-Registry Americans are an EFFECTIVELY invisible, huge, and widely distributed army. That army should end the Registries.
They can’t jail that many at once…
I’ve said this so many times yet somehow every RSO has this concocted idea that 100,000 people can be arrested and taken into custody. Yeah, into custody where? At Yankee Stadium?
So somehow 100,000 police officers will be on hand to make 100,000 arrests, right? SMH
we don’t support anyone putting themselves in a position to be arrested.
I think he ( Assuming Maestro is a he ) is just venting frustration like I often do. Seems nobody in the courts cares about what is legal or what is right for us.
The old ” For the Greater good” law goes into affect with their rulings and the “Cover your ass” adage so you can be re-elected campaign.
I love F.A.C and all the people in here but sometimes I want to take a break because it seems 99% of the post are for something bad happening to us and 1% positive rulings that never seem to be in Florida (No not blaming F.A.C) just frustrated to the point of wanting to do an Evil kneviel off of the Grand canyon.
How will thousands of people gathered in a VERY LEGAL protest be arrested?
No one is going to get arrested. Women Against Registry (WAR) stage protests semi-regularly without incident. We just need (for now) to respect social distancing.
One commenter here stated that “no rational approach has worked”. — This is true.
Here is a single voice of reasoning in the entire F***ing USA:
https://www.palisadeshudson.com/2012/02/collateral-consequences/
I have sent email after email to media and politicians. ENOUGH!!!!
NOBODY is listening to our pleas for justice!
W.omen A.gainst R.egistry have the right acronym!
Nothing else has worked. Maybe it’s time for some of us to become martyrs?
Discrimination plain and simple but remember none of this is punishment
Discrimination…yes. Punishment…yes. It is a typical ploy by ‘do-gooder’ liberals and conservatives to change the name of a deplorable act to a name that is more palatable to the public in general. So discrimination/punishment becomes protecting the public…who can find anything wrong with that? Another example…murder of the unborn was at first called ‘abortion’, then it became a woman’s health solution…to hell with the health of the unborn human; and now it’s the exercise of a constitutional choice. How can that possibly be wrong? Hitler and Stalin and others found out about this ploy many years ago. If it gets corrected during our lifetime…who knows? I do know that on judgment day it will get corrected. And those who have put themselves on a judicial pedestal will find themselves knocked off into the pit of hell for eternity. I would not want to be one of them.
Here is where I’m going to make an unpopular “opinion” and I hope that FAC will post my reply because it’s valid. Here goes:
I do know that on judgment day it will get corrected. And those who have put themselves on a judicial pedestal will find themselves knocked off into the pit of hell for eternity. I would not want to be one of them
With all due respect; you do NOT know that there is any such “judgement day” as there is no proof of the existence of any magical being in the sky. If you say the Bible is proof of god, then I say Bram Stoker’s fictional novel is proof of Dracula.
There a a ton of conservatives who are atheists. If you can access Facebook, you’ll find a few groups of them. Now then… since not everyone believes in an “afterlife” and no everyone believes in the existence of a god and not everyone believes in the same TYPE of god and this god’s type of punishment, let me remind you that far too many people don’t give a flying rat’s ass about what someone is going to get on “judgment day” in the “La-La Land” of mythology. There are children who would like mommy and daddy to take them to Disney World but one or maybe both parents are not allowed into Disney.
There are people who would like to make positive changes in their lives NOW, not in some unproven afterlife.
Tell a 5 yr old that can’t have daddy take her to Disney World that the mean people who won’t allow it will get what’s coming to them on “judgement day” and you’re gonna still have a 5 yr old that wants to have daddy take her to Disney world in THIS LIFETIME.
Sitting around throwing imaginary ideas of what’s going to happen to people on “judgement day” is as good as sitting around doing NOTHING to actually protest this bullshit we’re being put through NOW. I’m not concerned about an afterlife. I want to be able to move around FREELY in my “great country” and not have to live under the radar of fear that if I get my drivers license updated to whatever state I move to, they’ll FORCE ME AGAINST MY WILL to go BACK ON TO a registry that i have ALREADY COMPLETED MY TIME ON in my home state.
I’m sure there are lots of people both religious and nonreligous who will agree that we want our actual LIVES back NOW. Not when we’re dead.
Thank you for understanding.
I know that having God in my life has brought me peace and has played a major role in restoring my family. I would rather believe in God and be wrong than not believe in God and be wrong. All I have to do is look around to see that I am not surrounded by a bunch of ‘magical happenings’. The night sky is not an ‘accident’. With all the knowledge and science man has at his avail, no one has yet been able to make a blade of grass. I respect Maestro’s opinion and will keep him in my prayers. Eternity is a terrible thing to not be prepared for.
“Why should my tax dollars be put at risk for the benefit of a sex offender?”
That is the logic (?) behind provisions such as this, and the question we’ll always be asked, explicitly or implicitly, when we oppose them.
And it’s easy to counteract, IF people are listening.
Day after Day Week after Week Year after Year the same words come up every time “It applies to everyone except people that are registered sex offenders” I don’t understand why a decent lawyer doesn’t take all of these laws and benefits that state that and present it to the judge or judges and show them that almost anything in life that is good or prosperous applies to almost anyone(including murderer’s) except for registered sex offenders. punitive punitive punitive punitive
No hope,
The judges response to your comments “yawnnnnnn”.
That is why, they do not adhere to the oath they took in law school. It is no longer about what is legal but above them not upsetting the powers that be that allow them to keep their jobs.
There is a small group of wealthy, powerful people who control not only the U.S but the World. The courts are no exception.
What does your past have to do with trying to make a living?
I would say to add this to the argument that the registry is punishment but the way I read it, it seems like they run a background check and will deny you even if you’re no longer on the registry.
Until my rights are once again respected and I am allowed to become a productive member of society, I am choosing to retaliate against every one of the ridiculous rules. I am doing anything I can to fight back. I am filing silly lawsuits, violating rules as often as I am able without losing my relative freedom. I am choosing to be as big of a pain in the azz as I can possibly be.
There has to be something we can do to retaliate. Even if it is winning this “WAR” from every angle! Maybe we will wait to see what the Attorneys are going to do with whats going on in Tallahassee. But now im wondering is that going to be extended because of the virus. But when it does get to that point and time hopefully there going in with full force and to get the point across that we are tired of being used and we are just as good as they are and alot of ways better than they are because we care about people that are in a crisis and they can care less!!. Something has got to change their attitude or they will be answering to the one who knows whats going on! By then it will be to late for them anyway…..
Warpath,
I use to think people like you were all talk on line and just venting your frustrations. I did not think anyone would really go off and do something radical until I registered in December. I still cannot believe the guy was not arrested.
He was yelling “uck you” at the lady trying to complete his registration and telling her that they already knew everything about him so why should he have to “ucking have to keep repeating it”. Then he refused to sign the paperwork stating he had registered and he left, all the way out the door screaming cuss words telling them to go *uck themselves and more.
He probably didn’t get in any trouble but someone like me who is a good little boy and complies with everything is the one who gets screwed because I did not register every car I parked next to at Walmart last year when I was living in my car.
Thanks for the possitive feedback Cherokee! I probably was over dramatic and venting my anger but it is so hard to be rational to a bunch of irrational people that could care less about registrants. It makes me wonder what are they like outside the workplace. They got to know how to love and care about someone’s feelings. And how to forgive others that made some mistakes. Otherwise they would probably be alone and unhappy. And yes they are lawmakers, but there still has to be common since to the rule of justice. We are all humans. We all make mistakes. Some worse than others. Our situation has not gotten any better in years. If all or some of the Legislature’s would read all of the comments that have been posted it seems to me someone would have different opinions on how this is affecting all the registrants. “They” probably don’t want to waist there time reading “common since” issues
That is just another situation that might open there eye’s to whats going on with us that have a glimmer of hope!. 🙏
Concerned,
Yeah when I first had to register when the registry was first introduced, I was pissed as was everyone. However it was much more simple back then. Go in, register and be done with it until next time. Not sure how many or little sanctions I had because at the time I was on probation.
I will say, I am hassled 10000% more now that I have been off paper for 17 years than when on paperwork. There were no Fl statues on our licenses, No flyers hung on the door if you were not home, just a business card from law enforcement telling you to call them.
Back then, even with having to register, I traveled all over the World and the only problems I had was when I re-entered the U.S and almost always missed my connecting flight. I learned after a while to pay extra and have my home town as my entry airport.
I do think more and more people on the registry who have no family, no job etc are going to eventually crack and someone is going to do something that will make the news. Of course the news will only focus on the bad and how dangerous we are when that happens, instead of listening to our pleas for justice to be applied to our dilemmas.
Can we all resist the temptation to file silly lawsuits? They create bad precedent that makes things worse for registrants, not better.
Let’s save our resources for the best-informed attorneys and most sympathetic plaintiffs, for the benefit of everyone.
AMEN!!!
Why????????
Thanks for uncovering this inequity. It is almost unbelievable if you hadn’t sent the link for us to see it with our own eyes.
Society is determined to keep us out of the mainstream economy – no access to any gainful employment and disadvantaged should we strike out in business for ourselves. Maybe it’s time to start an underground economy….
This seems to be an ever present mantra in these pandemic times.
The term preponderance of evidence comes to mind when considering whether these restrictions can be viewed as anything but punishment in spite of the claim of civil regulatory scheme.
I have often of late wondered if any positive regulation can pass thru Congress without such exceptions.
First Degree Murder – come on in. You deserve a second chance.
Second Degree Murder – come on in. You deserve our assistance.
DUI Manslaughter of a Mother and three kids aged 1, 3, and 6 – lets help get this person back in society.
Armed Robbery with Assault of an 85 year old – Come on in. How can we help you today.
Person required to register because they streaked during half time at a football game when they were 18 and still in high school – Hell No. Get out of my office before you uncontrollably streak again. We know you can’t help yourself.
How can the federal government’s judicial branch conclude being on the registry is not punitive when the same government will help almost every other class of felon except for one.
Mr Alan…thank you!
can I please quote you, anonymously?
this in advance
I would also point out that the penalties for violating the so-called civil sanction are often more severe than those for the original offense that required registration.
Not punitive, my ass.
Dustin
Yes many times worse. My original conviction was $50,00 and 1 yr. probation.class B misdemeanor.No mention of registry.
24 yrs later I’m on the registry 3 mo. Check ins list of all contacts e-mail phone # can’t get on face book or instagram, to keep in touch with my kids, list of all vehicles . They come and knock on door occasionally to check on everything to make sure it’s all correct. Because of it can’t work for any one other than people who know me. Shunned by neighbors who don’t know anything about me. Have lost numerous jobs when they realized I’m on the registry. If I accidentally make any mistakes on any required contact I information, I’m charged with a felony and go to jail. There are many other things ,it takes them a full written page to list when they hand it to me each check in date.
So in cases like this, even getting off the registry (Which is our main goal) wouldn’t stop the discrimination against us. Frankly I would agree to just about anything if they would take me off the hit list.
They (Whoever they are) just want us all to fail so we can fill up the jails and prisons. When I was in therapy, there were a few guys who purposely did something to get arrested because they said the house arrest and ankle bracelets were worse than prison. Although I did not agree, I love the little bit of freedom I have left, I do understand the frustration of feeling like we can never succeed in the eyes of those who try and hold us down. Let’s prove them wrong.
I lost my home insurance a few years ago. They would never tell me why and when I called a legal aid group, they said it was 90% because of liability of me being on the registry / having a sex offense. If that happens to my parents because of me living with them now, I may have to move again.
This is exactly why our family business is solely in my wife’s name. I only do book keeping for it. If any way anybody found out about me the business would crash even though I do not personally participate in the daily activities of the business.
Just Tired
Exactly my thoughts. That law is so easy to get around that it’s insane to have it in the first place. Just put the business in a good friend or family members name. Why was it even put in there.
Does this mean that if one has been convicted of armed bank robbery or bank fraud…no problem? I am still searching for the logic in such a policy although I will not lose any sleep contemplating it.
seems like it, you can rob a bank, get convicted. Get out buy house within 1500 ft of the bank and im guessing you can open an account.
LOL Now that is irony. Open an account at the bank you robbed in the past HAHA
I once went to a doctors appointment and turned right around, went to the parking lot and called to cancel. It was my first time at that office and they had all the photos of the staff on the wall. One of the nurses in the photos was my ex wife. Nope, not going there.